TO ALL CHRISTIANS, HINDUS, MUSLIMS, SECULARISTS, COMMUNISTS and all people who have a heart, who loves the nation and her heritage, who believes in ethics and values.
M.F.Hussain is trying to create problems between Hindus & Muslims.
He is trying to create communal tension and clashes. No true Musalman brother will do this, no true hindus or christians or true communists or any one who wants communal harmony, and hindu-muslim unity will not do this. Any responsible, nation loving Indian who understands India and its heritage will never do this.
"Greater the freedom, Higher the responsibility. M.F.Hussain should have used the freedom of expression in a much more responsible manner" - Maharashtra Court
I request you to go through these and react... React very strongly. Vande Mataram
(These are only some pictures, There are many more vulgar and obscene pictures, this is deliberate insult)
Hussain claims "Rape of India" is a response to terror attacks in Mumbai.
In America there were terrorist attacks, will he paint Rape of America ?
In Pakistan terrorist attacks happen twice every week, why doesnt he paint Gang Rape of Pakistan ?
Holy Mecca was attacked by terrorists once, will he paint Rape of Mecca ?
We consider India as holy as a temple, church or mosque. Thats why Mahatma Gandhiji
once installed "Bharat Matha Temple". We see Nation as Mother, as Goddess.
We cannot be too soft on either terrorits or anti national painters like Hussain.
Sita Matha and Sri Rama are the oldest symbols existing in this part of the continent. Is painting the private parts of Sita Devi justified in the name of freedom of expression. Hussain knows that painting these things will create controversy and get him publicity. But 'using' these sacred symbols for selling and getting publicity is cheap and cunning.
Hey Ram were the last words of Gandhiji. Rama Rajya to him was the ideal state where all people and religions lived in harmony. Rama was 'purushottama', the ideal man.
60 years of Independence is morally the journey from Mahatmaji's Ram and Sita to Hussain's Ram and Sita
Dear Brothers and Sisters, My name is Rahul Easwar.
I usually dont write blogs nor am I a person who is very much into internet. But for the the past some days I was very disturbed about the above pictures. I was extremely sad and depressed over the above pictures. How can we allow a person to insult national, historic and cultural symbols and be happy and okay about it ???
It is something concerning you, me our future generations and our nation as such.
Please protest this move by the Kerala Government. The above pictures offends the national pride, dignity of women, religious feeling, secular and ethical fabric of our nation.
Silence is golden, but not always; many a times it becomes a sin
React, for we all have mother, sister, wife and family.
Let us take a pledge on this great day, that these kind of hatred creating cultureless elements will not be tolerated.
LET US SAY THAT WITH PRIDE THAT No one will be allowed to disturb the moral, cultural and national fabric of the nation. May our hearts rise to the heavens on this Independence day and declare who ever insults national pride and our culture will not be spared.
I HAVE HEARD SOME PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL,
SO-CALLED "LIBERAL" COMMENTS SUPPORTING M.F.HUSSAIN . LET ME REMIND " NO PERSON IN THE WHOLE WORLD IS "LIBERAL" and "BROAD MINDED" about his own MOTHER, SISTER, WIFE and DAUGHTER..
I CHALLENGE ANY ONE TO BE "LIBERAL" about THEM
(with immense apologies to their family).
WE LOVE OUR NATION AND CULTURE HIGHER THAN OUR FAMILY AND OURSELVES...WHAT WILL WE DO IF SOME ONE PAINTS OUR FAMILY MEMBERS NUDE, SEX MANIAC and VULGAR ???
...WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO M.F.HUSSAIN ???
LET M.F.Hussain not receive the RAJA RAVI VARMA award on September 17th 2007
AND WE HAVE WON...Kerala High Court and Maharasthra Court came to uphold Justice, Hon'ble Kerala High Court stopped the award and Maharashtra court issued arrest warrant to Hussain
Jai Hind
1,364 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 1364 Newer› Newest»If Mr.M.F.Hussain, has guts to defend his act of painting, & people who support him with basis of "freedom of expression", can fight in the court; & as everyone knows, the matter is in the court, & let them prove their act. Of course, Hussain has no guts to stay here, & so he is on run, & the foolish people supporting him can only do with words of abuse.
Perhaps, it looks that they are more interested in damaging the traditional sentiments, & national spirit.
If they had true sense on their stand, definetly they could comment all religion equally, or simply disclose their unfavourable stand on national sovernity.
Morever, the matter necessarily needs to be represented sound & clear by media, so that every citizen can know the true colours of Hussain.
I feal sincearly, all people needs to follow you in the matter. Best of luck Mr.Rahul
thank you Ravish. I hope people like you and me will always be there to serve for the nation and its history fighting all those elements which are traitors and against a culture's history
Really its hurting my feelings, we should have kick him out of our holly country
Subbu
Really its hurting my feelings, we should have kick him out of our holly country
Subbu
rahul...u have a good soul! ur truely a real indian! 1 day will come when most of the values of fake communists and seculars would be removed from our indian society,true socialist revolution would occur...being optimistic at that! kerala will be the start and the end of whats truth. irony it seem to many that kerala is called gods own country.... but sometimes irony comes with something sweet and good 2! always add the good vibes that others have rahul....the negative side of them...just observe and disregard.... rahul.... inspire more and more people! when the time is right...the truth of things would come out! our country needs change, to break the chain of fake indianness...!!! our keralas fake intellectuals would slowly fadeout... the younger generation would find the shallowness of many intellectual idiots!!! the internet has another revolution waiting! it would surely come! i believe in god, i am a socialist!i am a nature lover, i dont hate anything, i am just a man! hav a great future ahead! god bless all!
Dear Rahul
I just read your blog and I am impressed by your work and passion for the insensitive and blatantly wrong paintings by MF hussien
I agree with you -
To all the intellectuals:
what is a countries flag just a piece of cloth, for that matter any piece of symbol belonging to any religion, community, developed / underdeveloped nation
is precious and purposeful malign should dealt heavy handed.
there are 2 types in this SO CALLED INTELLECTUALS who support these type of actions--
1) who are ignorant of ramifications of their actions
2) who do it for wilful gain compromising
SO CALLED INTELLECTUALS:
you are either ignorant or deliberately for wrongful gains support this type of shaitans
You feel great to belittle
sentiments
I am not talking about SATI etc
these symbols are our core identity which questions our very existence
SO HOW CAN U QUESTION OUR EXISTENCE
and for the rest us LETS BE MORE STRAIGHT
simply the best rahul. go ahead. all the best. very nice blog, perefctly focused on the issue. protest M.F.H..
Jai Hind.
Mr. Quill
www.quillinginblood.blogspot.com
Rahul, well the effort is good but aren't we going off the limits with this issue? Isn't it like making a mountain out of a molehill? i mean all these people who have commented here - they are in their best spirits, so much that some have even used 'mother****er' in their comments. when i say, 'oh i can never tolerate something like this because Bharat Mata is my mother' and then go on to curse MF, calling him a mother****er, what does one make of it? just answer this. we are so ignited seeing Ram & Sita naked, we protest when we hear that Christ had a relationship and had a child, so so so ignited! But are we doing anything for women and girls who are abused, raped or being forced into porn? Many of you enjoy porn. Many of you would not protest if you saw someone abuse a girl. Many of you would only be entertained by nude women. But if you happen to see a morphed picture of someone close to you, you would be agitated!
I can see why Rahul is so vehemant about the whole of this. All the protests would do nothing but spread religious intolerence. So just think there are many many many other issues to be sorted in this huge nation of ours.
Done a great job rahul...
this should protest..........thousands are behind u..go ahed man...
this should protest..........thousands are behind u..go ahed man...
Hussain has proved that M..F.. is the apt prefix for him.
And nice work Rahul.
@ Rahul Eswar
Before protesting against MF Hussain for his painting Hindu deities nude, first it needs to analyzed whether it is right or wrong. This right or wrong cannot be decided by a minority since Indian Constitution (which has been quoted so many times by the writer) endorses democracy as its basic structure and for that a referendum is required. Now before analyzing the right or wrong of particular issue the more grave issues than this particular one should be resolved first.
In a country which has 2 contrasting faces that of - one of the fastest growing economies of the world and that which is among the the countries occupying the lowest position in terms of Human Development Index, this widening gap is aggrevated further due to such trivial issues raised now and then by the “Pseudo-Nationalists” (adding on to the severe capitalistic and feudal exploitations on these masses) which procrastinates or ignores the real or more serious issues faced by the country. These real issues don’t find market even for the Media giants unlike the page 3 and such trivial religious issues.
While more than 70% of the people earn less than 20 Rs. a day an amount which these “Pseudo-Nationalists” could earn through much less efforts and that too in countable minutes, the exploiting classes (including the Pseudo-Nationalists) who have their most important material needs satisfied long ago need to come up with any such trivial issues irrelevant to the majority to maintain their class hegemony over the rest of the people (The real people who have been exploited socially & economically through out the centuries by the ancestors of these minority pseudo-nationalists and other such groups and still being exploited in various direct and indirect ways by the present generation) through such indirect ways potraying themselves as Seculars while hiding their original intentions. And occasionally they come up with pre-planned colourful agitations and protests potraying themselves as the protector of the society joining hands with the rising middle classes (who have benefited from the free market economy and now trying to build a new class for their own) and catch hold of media attraction and the middle class attention.Once they get these hype they mercilessly ignore the cause of the protests , may sometimes follow up with small charity kind of helps(which are proportionally much smaller than what they acquired through the various exploitations) to cover up the present exploitations. The middle class obviously feel that they together have done a great job ignoring or not even caring to peep into the real causes of the issue.
Why blame these groups alone, as evident from the vast amount of positive response the writer has received, there are always these Middle Class who can never think beneath them and don’t have the mind to brainstorm about the society rather amuse themselves by sitting in the gallery and give commentary knowing very well that they don’t have the ability or need to play the real game. They can never play the game because for playing the game they need to know what the game is first and then the rules of the game. (After all giving commentary doesn’t cost anything or doesn’t require any skills. Throughout the years they have maintained their position shrewdly through such worthless commentary and occasional philanthropy). The pathetic reasoning level of these commentators is the real support for the pseudo-nationalists like our writer. The pseudo nationalists hide their real intentions while the middle class tend to be attracted to anything colourful & rhetoric and mistake anything against the existing patterns by such groups as reforms in the existing system or sometimes even revolution(How pathetically they degrade the real revolutionaries through such thoughts). The greatest hypocrisy I have found is that majority of these class people consider legendary icons like Che-Guevara and Bhagath Singh as their ideals without even knowing what these comrades have done for the society. This hypocrisy clearly shows “Pseudo-Adveturism” which they think they possess through such tactics but eventually evades when the real situations arises.
I CHALLENGE THE WRITER AND THE SUPPORTERS OF THESE WRITER WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES AS PATRIOTS TO GIVE AWAY YOUR INHERITED WEALTH OF YOUR FAMILY (WHICH WAS OBTAINED NOT THROUGH THE EFFORTS OF THEIR ANCESTORS BUT THROUGH GRANTS , EXPLOITATION OF THE LOWER CLASSES, TREACHERY ETC ETC) AND ALSO THE ACQUIRED WEALTH THROUGH THE BENEFITS ENJOYED BY THE EXPLOITING METHODS FOR THE CAUSE OF THOSE WHO NEED THEM THE MOST – “FOR THESE MAJORITY MASSES IS THE NATION AND NOT SUCH STUPID SUPERFICIAL THOUGHTS WHICH HAVE NO MATERIAL ENDS” ,THEN COME FORWARD AND SPEAK ABOUT “NATIONALISM” OR GIVE COMMENTORY OR WHATEVER YOU WANT.
Now coming back to the reasoning for the right & wrong of the issue, what is a right what is a wrong? The writer please define this. Also how potraying some superficial characters created by the minority group (one of the many acts of maintaining their class hegemony or more precisely in Indian terms CASTE hegemony) nude will affect the integrity of the NATION? Is it that the writer’s definition of Nation – a composition of such superficial beliefs and thoughts? And the composition doesn’t include the vast majority of people who are not even bothered about these superficial matters because they want to satisfy their more basic needs which the class including writer have satisfied long back and no need to think about them and also consider them trivial.
Also if painting the deities nude is obscene, then many temples in the country have to demolished because they depict more obscene pictures than these.(They show more variety of SEX postures which even the Blue Films may not contain and the parents have a terrible time explaining the meaning of these sculptures to their children). So aren’t these wrong and need to be protested? If no then what hypocrisy is this?
Many supporters have asked what if the same happens to our mother, sister etc. Our mother, sister are not extra human characters and for stigma, security etc we need to protect them against these, but the so called GODS who are considered by these people as the extra powerful (whose photo itself nobody have what is the logic about their identity itself) are they so weak that they require a minority well of group to secure them? (secure them from whom? Do these Gods fear that the humans will sexually abuse them seeing these pictures? Then the protests should be “GODS ARE IN DANGER, SAVE THEM”). The writer and his supporters are hereby proving that through such acts of painting nude the GODS, they are equally insecure as our mother, sister . Means GODS are equally weak as humans and need to be safe guarded by the humans constantly. What amusing conclusions these writer and his supporters leading to ?
Now again if the sentiments of these minority are affected as alleged by the writer because of these paintings , are these minority groups going to die of heart failures or do these drive them mad or something ???? What is the exact pain these paintings cause them, ? As mentioned even the so called GODS don’t have a identity among these believers and if the painter coming up with a painting hurt their sentiments then definitely the painter needs to be rewarded heavily to come up such a creativity that the believers could visualize their GODS whom they haven’t seen so far. These classes can also donate some clothes to these NUDE GODS to secure from the evil eyes in the society.
The writer also stressed on the rich heritage,culture blah blah of the Nation/Country – India. The Country India is defined by the geographical area and this geographical area has been originally inhibited not by the tradition or culture mentioned or believed by the writer. The original culture and traditions have been thrown away mercilessly and the original tribes have been “Colonolised” by the above mentioned culture. The writer has mentioned vehemently about the freedom of India from the “IMPERIAL BRITISH” , then what about the freedom for those original tribes who are till date not freed even after exploiting and suppressing them for centuries? If this suppression for such a long time and still occurring one can be ignored, then no need of getting emotional about the freedom (the freedom basically for the minority) obtained just over 60 years ago. In a way these GODS also are imported or foreign GODS.
what a crap article , M.F Hussein , can paint whatever he wants , there can be no limits over artistic expression. How can anybody control anybody elses thoughts?
There is nothing sacred about anything ,
Your beliefs are you own , and not to be forced down on others . you may not find art in his paintings , but that is merely your opinion,
M.F Hussein paints on his own impulse , he or any other artist is not under any contract to paint things that are acceptable to some people ..
i think the courts are overstepping their authority , we have to keep a strict separation of state and religion , it is unreasonable for the courts to take religiously biased decisions ...
Your intolerance is almost disgusting , by what moral right can you say to be a citizen of India, the country of Gandhi .
you are asking to restrict M.F Huseeins freedom , what right do you have to take away that , it was not you that granted it , it was a freedom that was won through a long period of struggle and suffering ,
the freedom is our treasure , its
more important than religion .
anyway ,i feel your demands are not worthwhile , millions of our people are still under poverty and exploitation , due to an unjust economical system , to the people who cannot afford even one days meal , would your arguments make any difference ?
Excellent write up Nidhin.. nattil prashnangal undakkan evaney pooley ulla orennam mathy..
before all this, could you do something to remove all those nude sculptures of GODS and GODDESSES from the temple walls ? may be M.F.Hussain didn't draw those..
why do you want to divide people based on religion ? its a pity on young people like you, living in this 21st century and still keeping mindsets of those old barbarian ages...
i've noticed you deleting those comments against your opinion... are you claiming to be a nationalist of this same Bharat, which is a beautiful blend of different cultures, which has easily adopted the pros of almost all cultures in the world... and you can't take a small criticism against your opinion. Strange...!!!
"No true Musalman brother will do this, no true hindus or christians or true communists or any one who wants communal harmony, and hindu-muslim unity will not do this"...Then what are you trying to do here.can I derive an opinion you are not a true Hindu from your findings
Silence is golden, but not always; many a times it becomes a sin
I would also like to remind you noise for unwanted things is nuisence
I dont like to take each of your points and counter one by one as it is of no use..after seeing your responses to some of the comments..i feel pity on you
I just noticed some replies by the owner of the blog. Evanaru spine specialisto ? critism varumbol enganeyanu marupadi parayendathu ? Oru sample engane "Njan THULLUM, VENENKIL THALLUM. Dont blabber. I DARE ur SPINE.My number is 098468-15555. If you have spine call me, I have a spine, Do you have it? ". Eeee blog owner Rahulante spine nattukaru kandathalle. Hidden camera yumayi minister rude officil kayari yathinu , kerala police evanu edi spinil koduthathanu. Ahankaram thalakku pidikkan padilllla. Blog thudangam, argue cheyyam, ideology spread cheyyyikkam but minimum sahishnatha kanikkanam. Ellaperyum mookil valichu ketttikalayumennanu bhavam, areyum oru chukkum cheyyan ponilla...Ethu keralamanu especially thiruvananthapuram...........
TO "Superficial" Critics
This is the sad state of India today. People, posing as "intellectuals", who are actuallyt pseduo intellectuals without deeply studying anything go for their own foolish conclusions.
"You are free to form your own opinion, but not to take liberty with facts"
1. The paintings are not of God and Goddesses in temples. They are depictions of people presenting an idea in past. (study thru net)
2. Nudity is not the point of debate, but vulgarity.
3. There are many problems in this nation. Economic, social, cultural, political. All issues need to be addressed, not only economical.
4. Rajeev, shibu, vinod. Karyam ariyathe samsarikkukayanu.
All artisits and writers are fond of controversies for they only benefit and become famous through this.
Hussain is deliberately trying to create controversy by painting these. Why cant u see such a simple point? He is an experienced painter. He clearly knows he can create controversy by painting these and get more fame.
5. Pinne EHTU Keralamanu, Thiruvananthapuram aanu. Athu Kondu ? So what ? Nammal ellam evide Jeevikunathanu.. Messagil vere tone venda. Athu chelavakilla.
6. Delhi High Court, Kerala High Court, Maharasthra court gave verdicts against hussain after DEEPLY STUDYING THE ISSUE. NO freedom is unlimited. They rightly said "Hussain wants controversy, he does this for publicity". Study something deeply and judge.
Dont go for childish remarks like 'freedom is unlimited'. or immature perceptions like "artist can do anything"
"No one can do anything" every freedom is bound by duty, every liberty by responsibility, right ?
And in that social responsibility stands the idea of commitment, fighting injustice, ethics, morality, ...sensibility & sensitivity of a society
" We always See what we look for. "
It is the sad reality for many people. They are so prejudiced.
I respect and worship all religions. Sarva Dharma Sama Bhavana is the motto I believe in and is the motto of our nation too. Refer my other blog and "If gandhiji comes back".
And dont always think "some people" are the only "Secular people" in this land. True secularism will never come with tolerance, it will emerge only from mutual respect,communal responsibility and sensitivity of each other
http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=125020
We all fight in between about the paintings of Hussain. We never win with each other, for I am stubborn about my view point, So are you.
We fight, But Hussain wins.
That is his sole aim - To be in NEWS, to be a point of discussion. Sad we fall for it.
SEE THIS LINK TOO...A MUSALMAN brother complaints against Hussain.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1428455.cms
dear rahul y u r deleating the commets put up against u...yest nite i saw many comments and 2day half of it r nt thr...athu orumaathiri natellu illaatha paripaadi alle???
FOR EVERYONE's INFORMATION
All comments which uses abusive language and comments which are using vulgar expressions will be deleted. This will be irrespective of which ever side, view a person endorses
And deepu, You can also notice a comment supporting my side was also deleted due to bad use of language and unnecessary reference to hurt another person
And you can easily see, your comment will NOT be deleted and will be there till the blog is there. Take care. Jai Hind
let me begin with this statement I am not an intelectual "The paintings are not of God and Goddesses in temples. They are depictions of people presenting an idea in past. (study thru net)" Same way M F HUssain is depicting his ideas "Nudity is not thepoint of debate, but vulgarity" I dont think a debate is going on here "There are many problems in this nation. Economic, social, cultural, political. All issues need to be addressed, not only economical" Yes you are right..though I am not sure about its relevence here...Communists often say..the class difference will get eliminated by a growth of the society in social, cultural, political areanas..which will bring economic growth automatically.. "Rajeev, shibu, vinod. Karyam ariyathe samsarikkukayanu" I may be wrong and would like to continue this discussion so that I & those read this can learn something from you All artisits and writers are fond of controversies for they only benefit and become famous through this ok..I am agreeing to your point for an argument sake..Hussain became famous through this(here you are contradicting your own points..it should be infame per your opinions)..Can I add one more line..You are blaming Hussain to become famous Delhi High Court, Kerala High Court, Maharasthra court gave verdicts against hussain..Courts produce a judgment based on the arguments during trail...that need not be true always..if high court verdicts need to swalow without water...then why do we need appeal courts..
To Mr. Nidhin et al,
Appreciate your efforts and keen interest in criticizing the author who spoke against MF Hussain's nude paintings. It's great to see your pondering thoughts floating across the contrasting faces of the country, the ever upward thrusting bourgeoisie middle class and the left out, sidelined unfortunate masses, an issue we, as a Nation could never handle despite all these so called 60+ 'developing' years. Agree, we are one of the fastest growing economies in the world, and unfortunately human development indices plotted us at the last few, due to reasons historically which were not been able to resolve by the governments that represented you and me, it's a shame, totally accepted.
But why is it that a protest against the depicting of Hindu Gods (or Goddesses) by a well known painter with international celebrity status called 'pseudo nationalism'? People, who nurtured and developed themselves into a civilized populace on the banks of the river Sindhu, later called themselves Hindus and later agreed to accept in their bosoms the worthy leftovers of each and every single religion existed in the planet, its called acceptance of the higher ordeal, the maturity to think beyond the Semitic 'ism's of the religious thoughts. They rightly wished to call themselves as a civilization and not as a mere religion. But that does not mean that they need to bury their sentiments or feelings towards what they consider as revered or divine, they too share the same space and breathe the same air as their less numbered brethren who believe in equality and universal justice.
Why is it that double standards still prevail in the Hindu predominant country (yes we call secular, oh boy, you people will never say pseudo secular), when ever there is an attack against the religious sentiments of the majority people? Or is it taken for granted that they do accept any thing without question? When ever I mean sentiment, I mean each and every syllable of it, 's-e-n-t-i-m-e-n-t', just how the sentiments of the Muslims are hurt whenever a Danish Cartoon make an un accepted reference to the prophet or a book questions the credibility of beliefs of the Pope or the Church, an ordinary Hindu is not as broad minded as you to just shake his shoulders in disbelief and walk away when the pious Goddess to whom he bows his head since childhood is sketched with nil dress and presented in an international exhibition. He will protest, vehemanant and voice his thoughts, his upbringings are equally polluted in the doped social system of the complex country, a fact people of your cult easily forget. Hence any protests are termed 'pseudo nationalism'.
Why? Don't we have an ancient religion (read it civilization), an amazing culture which dates back to the humanity itself, a forgiving and accepting tradition, strong and deep beliefs, same feelings as other humans, bitter sentiments when some one intrude to the personal sphere, unshakable faiths, our own rights, wrongs? Why always these things happen in our space? When I say our space, I do not wish to differentiate between we and them, I do not harbor any thoughts in that sense.
Criticizing just for the cause of it is not going to gain any thing. And it should not stoop into the shameful level which is aimed at individuals. India as nation must have done many mistakes, historically and culturally many nations in the past must have gone through various turmoil and not all the steps taken and moves carried out must have gone right, it's all the maturity of the populace and the collective social responsibility and outlook of the people that must have evolved over the years. All our ancestors might have done many mistakes, but once the generations of the present show the stability and maturity to accept from it they should move on to better societal values, not to the games of blames and shames and defaming the beliefs of one section of the society. At the same time it is foolishness on your part to ask the ‘supporters of author’ (really don’t understand whom you are targeting, the author, or the people who are sharing his same views or pseudo-nationals) for giving up the inherited property and prove themselves as patriots. Please be bold enough to call a spade a spade and don’t deviate away from the topic, the author was not discussing the prospects of the parental property but the deeds of an acclaimed painter and the far reaching consequences of that act in a complex nation like ours.
I sincerely suspect it’s a personal agenda of yours that is being spoken in your words, either against the author or any of the people who support him.
Could you please tell me, by depicting a revered figure of a section of a society in an obscene manner how the basic needs of the deprived sections are satisfied? Or is there any precedence set in our democracy by the judiciary or the parliament that issues are prioritized and unless the ones with top priority are resolved the lesser ones will never be discussed in the public spectrum? Agree, there are more serious issues faced by Indians than M F Hussain paintings, but that does not dilute the treachery and prejudice of his act. And why do you want to compare the safety of God and humans, it was so funny, I must say. The similarities that you drew between humans and their security with Gods, it was shamefully funny, not worth commenting.
All these are new generation sadisms, dear Mr.Nidhin, a way of giving vent to the frustrations. There is absolutely no issues in debating nudity or sex in the public, and all are aware that Indian paintings and temple mural structures are an abode of such stuff. But again that does not give a clean chit to these acts of stupidity.
Let us try to understand who is sitting in the gallery and who is playing for them. As long as minorities are vote banks and many a fiercely fought election results are being swung by the minority votes, as long as Wakhf and Church are given powers beyond the reach of the normal rules, as long as the common civil code is not implemented here, there is no question of who is playing and who is watching from the gallery. Oh, being middle class is a sin in this country, and that too voicing some protest against any grudges against the majority of the people is a shame!
May god bless you!!!
Indian, that was truly Indian.
I believe it is not the fault of people like Nidhin or any one. They fall for a propaganda. Having a prejudice that any one who talks about our collective past, nation or ethics is either " a communalist" "or not progressive" or " Pseudo-nationals". It is a branding, clever branding to sideline people who they think are "Hindu fascits".
But sad, they dont know, it is them who are actually creating 'consolidation' of these people by not being sensitive and doing acts that are aggressive and attacking.
I met K.E.N Kunjahamed. Who wrote an article against Hussain campaign and me as a person in a magazine "Current affairs"
His organisation Pu.Ka.Sa...Purogamanan Kala Sahitya sangham. tied black cloth around their mouth and protested Honourable Kerala High court's verdict against Hussain.
These people are not looking at the fact that "Hussain is gaining" when we are fighting. they are oblivious of the fact that "Hussain does this for cheap publicity as rightly said by Satish Gujral (brother of our Ex-prime minister I.K.Gujral)
And they ask questions like what about painting in temple ? the CONTEXT there entirely differs
For Eg : In the last IND vs AUS match, a person ran nude into the stadium and infront of camera. He was fined many dollars there, in charge of indecency.
CAN HE ARGUE
The Jain Prophet Mahavira walked naked. You first make him pay fine and then punish me.
If a great religious prophet can go without clothes, so can I!!! So punish mahavira and then me. Or else like Mahavira, let me come to watch all matches naked.
People raise these kind of trivial arguments. May God give them eyes without prejudice
V A N D E M A T A R A M
First of all understand that the Nation India is not defined by any Gods or Goddess. It is the geographical area (for which unresolved border issues still exist with our neighbors) and not the collection of any existing traditional beliefs or customs. Also you have been mentioning about the rich culture or civilization. If we have to go by origin, these are not indegnous people who have taken along with them the civilization also to this geographical place. The original tribes were brutally exploited and suppressed through out the centuries in the name of Castes , ethics, civilization etc and others had been forced to jungles and to remote areas. Is it the richness you are talking about ?? Also did the rich civilization able to eliminate the inequalities in the society though it was here for such a long time?? Is there any aspect contained in this civilization which could eliminate the inequalities? Infact it is them who aggravated any of the comparably less inequalities prevailed in the society then and is this the richness?? Or is the richness you are talking about the adventurous stories of the epics and other traditional stories which are of no use other than the feeling like watching some action movies?? If this colonization can be justified, then any other colonizations or invasions can be justified whether it is by the Mugals, Turks or the British.
The so called beliefs, traditions built by these classes who are to maintain their supremacy by creating the various structures and concepts in which the Caste system is one of them.These will later be the traditions or culture. Tell me, if such beliefs are not there , if the so called civlisation or culture is not there , do u think anarchy will prevail in the existing society or the existing setup will collapse?? Has civilization anything to do with the materialistic developments occurred so far in the society? These civilization also used rationalism whether it is administration or economy which only made them move forward and not their superficial beliefs. These various beliefs or civilization or are all maintained to maintain the respective status quo and maintain their class hegemony over others. These religions , castes etc have only contributed to communal riots, mass murdering, extremism etc and they have done no materialistic development to this society.
These are not targeted against the so called cultural leaders from Hindu section only. If the same irrelevant protests in support of Muhammad Nabi or Jesus occur, then also the same criticism will come against these protestors who are protesting for nothing. You have been comparing muslims protest with the hindu protests and mentioned hindus are not broad minded to resist etc. In any of such protests how many supporters are you getting overall.Majority will be from the well off and middle calss sections who have satisfied their basic needs.So here are you leaving the civilization point which you have been holding above and saying that because some other sections are protesting for therir rights we are also protesting, is it like that? I feel funny here, the conclusion I can draw from here is that because they do, we also do need to do the same then only we can maintain our status. Instead you this energy to fight such elements of other sections also.
If you are born in the house of a dalit who are constantly harassed by other classes and your parents do tedious manual labour and still find hard to meet the diet requirements of your family, as you grow up what will be your first need, to hold beliefs and safe guard that or to meet your food and other basic requirements for the family? Tomorrow if you lose everything by some natural disaster,and you are unable to meet your basic requirements, you still hold on to your existing beliefs and go on like this or you will find your basic needs more important ?
Being middle class is not a sin , you are luckier than the ones below you .You have fought through the years against the upper ones for your rights yet ignoring or exploiting the people below you though not in the same vigour with what the upper classes would have done. Any class will fight for their needs when situation arises and that is their main cause and then only they can think about others even if they have to. This is not unity and without unity and without the same feeling which they have for their own classes if it is not their for other classes how it is Nationalism??
“All our ancestors might have done many mistakes, but once the generations of the present show the stability and maturity to accept from it they should move on to better societal values, not to the games of blames and shames and defaming the beliefs of one section of the society” –
Yes we can move forgetting the past but for that every one should be given equal rights and opportunities in every aspect. First you fight to achieve that rights for everyone, to make the class below you upto your level then we can forget everything about the past and move forward. The land , social status , ability to pursue education , jobs etc are not purely because of your abilities alone , these are denied to them not because of their lack of ability but they don’t have the same opportunities which you have. If you can’t fight for such fight and keep on protesting for something which you would like to only , then don’t be a hypocrat and say you are a Nationalist.
If your neighbour has cheated your family with your wealth, will sue them in court or say lets move forward, if they are achieving far better success than you because of the wealth amassed from you, is it because of their capability or you lack of ability . Think Think Think before showing the “Pseudo-Nationalism” which I have said before and again saying ……….
You asked about calling your Nationalism as Psuedo-Nationalism . What else is this? You protested against the nudity or vulgarity of the so called Gods , where were your voice when so many “real” incidents occurred in the society where small girls were gang raped or if you go to northern parts of the country there are many incidents were low caste women are being raped and made nude in front of the villagers through out (the same scene which you can find in the film Bandit Queen which is not just filmy but still happening in the rural parts of India) .These are not rare incidents , many other vulgarities are occurring there and the media inspite of knowing all these also, report once in a while only these.
If you want to prove you are a nationalist and not a pseudo one, start protesting against these most severe issues, start protesting for violation of rights of the materialistic aspects of all the people , protest for providing equal rights to all the people living in this nation…. These are what called Nationalism, and not such valueless protests which cannot make any difference but can create only additional hype in the media and turn the media and drag other public departments such as courts, govt etc into these irrelavnt ones. The energy,time,value all wasted in such issues can be used productively for the more grave issues prevailing in the society. You have mentioned in your post that you agree about the both faces of the country and sad that the situation is so. Being sad doesn’t change anything , energy you used here , if used in public debates involving the more serious issues of the dark face of India , it would have been worthwhile. Why the same way you can’t keep quiet here also and be just sad in case of Hussain paintings but protest or voise your concern here only ? And yet you consider these are not pseudo-nationalism ????
You have mentioned about vote bank politics & minority appeasement, this you have to voice against the governments in the appropriate forums. Not taking those as justification to start protests and not mix that with such issues which is really what is causing splits.
You also have mentioned about me attacking the individual. It is your poor conviction which made you to say this. Is it me or the writer who attacked me ??
"Njan THULLUM, VENENKIL THALLUM...I, till the day I die will do that if some one offends my nation. Angane oru attitude undavanamenkil ..... Janikkanam.."
""Adhakrithanennu swayam karuthunavante apakarshatha bodham. Vere achanu janikkanam ennu paranjal nadakumo aniya. Yogam..thats some people's problem.""
Who told these even without replying to a single point which I have raised??
Hello
Am totally agreeing with you. Vulgarity shouldn’t be encouraged ,its definitely opposable. But do u know, lord Sree Rama had doubted the virginity of Seetha Devi and forced her to performed the “Agnisudhi”, that what Ramayana says…do u think this incident would affect her virginity, culture or anything…still we praise her. By this action anyone considered Sreeraman as a corrupt, anybody says he was a traitor or a cultureless man…NO-like this way all such things which would never affect any ordinary people’s life, or any patriot’s culture…
Pinne… for an argument sake am favoring u in M.F’s issue… u pin pointed these things ,that painting was a cultureless one and a real patriot shouldn’t encourage this…and so on…
OK, that painting was a cultureless one , then how can we encourage the “thanthri-shobha john” flat issue…actually that was the opposable thing. In my view it was the major cultureless thing ever happened, those kind of activities shouldn’t appreciate. What a real mother lover or a cultured human being or a patriot should do is, first react against those unwanted creatures and eliminate them from the society. M.F Hussain’s painting was only an art form. But what was the “thantri’s “ flat play, do u think it was an art better than M.F’s…so first u should raise ur voice against that…cleaning from dear and near-it was a great relief for the poor women’s and patriots in kerala…
Athu kondu aarengilum enthengilum paranjal chornnu pokunnathalla nammude samskaravum sabhyathayum .engil athokke pande sambhavikkendathayirunnu…evide issue kerala govt. award kodukkunnu ennathanu…so picturing that the govt: = villain…
Samsakaram nammal thane vilayiruthendathanu…”kindi”yokke eduthu erangunnathinu munne manyamayi engane
samsarikkam ennu ariyuka(I saw some comments as ur reply in this blog)…thantri kudumbangavum “valiya hindu” um aayathukondu manyamayi samsarikkilla ennu vashi pidikkunnathu seriyallallo… snehapoorvam….
nithin, its great that you have argued nicely!
eashwar avante apakwatha mataram alla, avante manushya virodham koodi kaanikkunnu ivide!
veruthe vidoooo ente eshwareeeeeee, sundarmmayi, veruppillathe jeevikkan nookkooooo! kalakaaranmaare koodathikkum, ninakkum onnum manassilavilla! athillottu tala ittu chumma neee naatukaareee kollunna panikkirangaathe!
adi kananamengil wwf kaanoooo! ninte wild feelinginu thripthy kittum!
daa rahule, ninte phone no adi poli aanu!
post paid aanoo pre paid aanooo? relax!
Nidhin and Poocha.
1st point.
You didnt reply to any one of the points I raised.
2nd point.
Your vision of Indian history in NOT right. Now even foreigner's reject the - ARYAN INVANSION THEORY and Max Muller foundation itself says "in the light of new evidence, aryan invasion theory should be rethough"
3rd point
YoU have a prejudice. A prejudice of Marxism. Marx was a great philosopher, NOT A HISTORIAN. His thesis and theories of India are not accurate. His vision was euro-centric.
Prejudice, either philosophic or ideological distort your views.
4th point
Poocha. Ur opinions are childish enough to be ignored. so take care
But Nidhin's and Jiji's points are to be countered
5th point
Nidhin's basic view point is of dividing society into proletariat and bourgeois.
So everything you look, you try to see it and fix it to the mould of, poor and rich.
UNDERSTAND that there is an economic view point to issues, ALSO HISTORIC, CULTURAL, NATIONAL, SOCIAL, EMOTIONAL VIEW POINTS TOO.
Your view can be braodly said to be identical to Abraham Maslow's theory "Hierarchy of Needs"
That theory itself is good, but is not universally applicable.
6th point
If you may please write points by numbering, it is easy to decipher the, So i humbly request to do that
7th point
The very basic idea of Marxism that "Man, his conscioussness is only a product of environment is proved WRONG beyond doubt, by Modern Genetic Research and Science"
His mind, his conscioussness is INHERITED to a great extent, and has inborn, genetic influence. So Marx's perception's of scientic socialism has now moved to an arena of ideology or philosophy where as once it was considered "Scientific". Same is the fate of Freud's 'Psychoanalysis' where as once it was considered 'bitter science and truth'
World has moved a lot after Marx and Freud, But sadly our so-called "Intellectual" world is still dictated by the ideas, background, paradigms of them.
Think about it. Jai Hind
daa max mullar foundation german aanu! avaru aryan supramacyeede aalukal aanennu ellavarkkum ariyaaam!ineem puthiya koree visheeshangalumaayi avaru varum!
pinne ninne poole kaleye kurichu oru vivaravum illatha oraaloodu ithilum childish aayittanu samsaarikendathu! there is no point in discourse with you!! Because you are ignorant! And also dangerous! Ninte maskinullile mukham enthaanu ennokke aalukalkku manassilaakum!
art okke nee vijarikkunathinum valya gjaana meekhalayiloodeyaanu sanjarikkunathu! nee kuranjathu oru 5 years enkilum eduthu veenam athu padikkaan!
Ninakku etra blood kudikkuvanaa mooham???? Juice okke pooreedaa dushtaaaaa? Ha aha ah vargeeyavadam kalayedaaaa! Manushyare ingane christain, muslim, hindu, sikh ennokke paranjee nee kanoollo?
Poi nannakadaaaa!
Poocha. for your information. I never removed any comment from jiji. neither I want to . I have debated the pros and cons of this topic to different people and gained understanding. Even High Courts accepted it too.
He himself Removed it, not me.
And I am removing ur comments for they are childish, foul language , rubbish enough to be discarded. You post some thing sensible, you are all welcome, how much ever critical you are. For the health of a good society depends on meaningful discussion not on immature 'hahaha's and comments. I request you to come up with points like Nidhin and Jiji.
People differ, so do their perceptions. Thats normal. They interact, debate sensibly, some time violently, thats also normal. Meaningless comments in between are abnormal. Post ANYTHING, ANYTHING HOW SO EVER CRITICAL OR BLAMING. BUT BE SENSIBLE AND TO THE POINT. take care, jai hind
dear rahul,
i understand your pain! But you should know that this is the period of ‘desublimation’!
so artists, writers have the philosophical grip over what they are doing!
It may appear that a lot of people tend to be devotees of sita, swaraswathi etc. but at the same time, artists mind get in to several complex process! That’s why they are being creative! Art is not only simply a political ‘doing’! The contingency and final vocabulary matters in art!
But first, I thing your view about hussains works are not apt because you are not aware about art!! ( you must know that hussain got deep knowledge about god and goddess and also he is a free man and breath ‘freedom’!) And it seems that you accused some thing vulgar- which is not and I suspect your motif! But imagination and expression are not crimes- so hussain can do the works as he likes and you can construe and protest!
I am amused, struck and sensationalized with that swaraswathi painting! That’s beautiful and interesting, but I don’t see any good in ravi varmas swaraswathi which you got impressed!! thats a joke! It is good for amarchtrakatha! Your sense of beauty has not shaped well. Try to see more and more art! It’s a huge and vast world where artist valiantly ‘do’ what they have to!its sad that people who didnt have an experience of a discourse about art is discussing it in a blog!
What if a person who has no knowledge about Vedas tries to discuss it???
I liked your enthusiasm! But there is time to rethink, but it seems that you have taken this peculiar subject not with your own sense of right and wrong! Does it contain a grand design to frame the people????
Exist with good positive energy and enjoy your beautiful life, rahul!
1st point.
First of all Eswar, You gave some abstract reasonings and didn’t reply to any of the points I mentioned. Still once again raise your points which need reply ??????
2nd point.
If my vision of Indian History is not right , you provide a vision regarding how the so called inequalities exist in our society ?
How a caste based society exist in India? How the so called low caste are in the low economy group, least educated , still not have access to education , land etc ?
How the land came to be occupied only by few people of the high caste groups ?? How the so called low caste groups made to work as slaves in their land and exploited them by taking all the profits of their hard work while denying them the due share?
Even after Independence why the majority of high caste groups able to pursie education while the majority of the low caste groups still not able to complete even primary education ???
Please give me answer to these questions to provide me the correct vision of Indian History.
Other Points.
I have asked you a question for which you haven’t answered yet. If you were born in a very poor house finding difficult to meet even your basic needs, which will be your most important need Economic or the other needs which you have mentioned like HISTORIC, CULTURAL, NATIONAL, SOCIAL, EMOTIONAL?
The point which you are not understanding till now is the fact that only after satisfying your basic needs which is through economic then only you can think of other issues.Also Economic needs contribute directly and indirectly to the HISTORIC, CULTURAL, NATIONAL, SOCIAL, EMOTIONAL need.
Even majority of the politcians,activists,writers etc are all from the class which have met their needs which directly attribute to Economic . The son of a daily wage worker who gets less than 20 Rs a day and have to meet many stomache even if have good concepts and innovations in his mind not able to bring it to public like what we are doing through blogs. It is very rarely those sections can showcase their intellectual capablities even if they have more than others….
Even most of the great philosophers , writers , leaders come from a class who have satisfied their basic needs.
"Man, his conscioussness is only a product of environment is proved WRONG beyond doubt, by Modern Genetic Research and Science" -
You have rightly mentioned that his consiousness has inborn, genetic influence but forgot to mention "also" in the last. Where does this continuity of genetic ifnluence come from??? His fore fathers have also acquired the consciousness from the surroundings only, it didn’t come from no where. For eg: People brought up in harsh conditions tend to be more arrogant and those brought up in in better conditions may not be so. Again the same child brought up in good conditions may show different reactions , it may either due to the environment in which he has grown up or due to the gentic influence of say some 3 or 4 genrations before (His ancestors 3 or 4 genrations has acquired those characteristics not from their but have originated somewhere through their contact with the environment only.)
So a man's consiousness whether it is from environment or through gentic influence which again acquired through the surroundings is "from the environmnet only" .
You can read http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm for Dialectic Materialism and Historic Materialism. Your doubts which you have raised above through out could be clarified through these. You can also find whether through Historical Materialism Marx has tried to show how various classes arise from the different modes of production and whether it is significant today( which you think the world today have no relation to Marxism).
Also I suggest we can discuss Marxism and other theories in new threads , otherwise the point of discussion here will be diverted.
Poocha. Post sensibly and your comments will be there with utmost respect. This is not a forum for laughing. You can have it in person. here topics of serious nature are discussed.
Dear Nithin, I can perfectly understand the background, the basic viewpoint from which you are seeing things. The basic Marxist view point. I was a "very left-liberal" and i know what emotion you have in ur mind.
1st very clear point.
Your perception that only after having the basic level of bodily need, hunger...Man can think higher things. is not "totally" true.( true to a good extent)
(for eg: Potti Sreeramulu, undertook fast unto death for linguistic re-organistion of state. Does that mean Potti sree ramulu was an ELITE, Bourgeois, Pseduo-national ? )
The reality is man is not DRIVEN by hunger alone, many a times the identity, ideology, his belief systems become more important a driving force than hunger and even life.
BUT LETS ASSUME IT IS TRUE.
So what ? So What ? Man has been going to moon, does that mean, only after letting every one have food, man should go to moon. there are millions starving. Does that mean, the billions spending on space technology, moon mission, other planet voyages should be banned. are they pseudo-scientists ? heartless creatures ?
We should have balance, a system which takes care of needy and hungry along with spending money for space, and reaching to stars.
2nd point
Every one can have their view points, But they cannot take liberties with fact or truth.
Your question " How can there be inequalities ?
The reality, the bitter reality is "Men are born unique". Every man is born different,inequal, unique. Thats a fact. You can call it "nature's handword" (lets not go for the concept GOD.)
But nature makes every one different by a mechanism that is always there, with out a CAUSE. And here is the basic philosophy of marxism "Men are born equal" it sounds good, guided the 20th century, but the reality is MEN/Women are different. They have different GENES.
Genes differ not because of different ENVIRONMENTS. But because they DIFFER, they 'simply' differ.
I know what will go through ur mind reading this. But Please do read "Theory of FALSIFICATION" by Karl Popper. A very serious, scientific approach which is very tough to explain. Do read that, and ananlyse Marxism. Marxism was considered a "science" in the past. Now it is no more a science for science has discovered much more. more into the "uncaused nature of Human reality"..
I am very happy to continue discussion for you are serious and sincere in ur approach.Go ahead, I can also learn many things from you, you also keep ur mind open for life will teach you many other thigs too
njaan nirthi! nee oru escapist aanu! daa art ne kurichu para! ninakku enthoonu ariyaam athine kurichu???? para!
@Rahul
1st very clear point.
Your perception that only after having the basic level of bodily need, hunger...Man can think higher things. is not "totally" true.( true to a good extent)
Then tell me to what extent it is true ?
You again evaded my question which I put as example such as If you were born in a poor family struggling to meet your basic requirements , which is more important to you ,your culture or food?
Please don’t make arguments for the sake of arguments .You have mentioned in your earlier post , you are stubborn so am I. I am not stubborn , coz I know I am not that much intelligent to be stubborn. If proved I am wrong and I am convinced , I am ready to accept my mistakes.
So Please reply precisely.
Fast unto death for linguistic re-organisation of state is for Material need which they consider only through such re-organisation they could have autonomy over various administration requirements in their area and the basic needs such as eliminating poverty,food security,medical security,eduction
could only be satisfied by getting this autonomy for which they undertook fast-unto death as a method.
These were not with regard to any superficial beliefs .
A hunger strike does have the same significance as undertaking a suicide threat, from this premise itself you can make out how much inhuman is hunger as it relates to death.
The reality is man is not DRIVEN by hunger alone, many a times the identity, ideology, his belief systems become more important a driving force than hunger and even life.
- Man is not driven by Hunger alone true , but what I have been saying through out and what you are not able to understand or trying to evade is satisfying hunger is the main criterion for a human being. Not to some extent but to the full extent.
It is not your fault , it is because you don’t know what hunger means (you haven’t experience true hunger which these large no:of people are experiencing not for a single day but sometimes for days)
that you are not getting the depth of these this issues “hunger” which you might think is such a small cause.
I made this whole point of hunger to mention that in our country more than 70% people are living below poverty and almost 200 million people are not able to satisfy the basic food requirements. In such a scenario rather than raising such trivial issues of protest against MF Hussain which will definitely drag public departments such as Courts,Administration,Government and also Media into such trivial issues and whose energy could have been used effectively for the vast issues in the country such as alleviating poverty,hunger etc. So the people who are raising such trivial issues and forgetting the more serious issues or wasting their energy for such trivial issues (the energy which could have been utilized effectively for protests for providing equal rights and opportunities for the citizens and make sure the basic requirements of all citizens are met.) have no right to claim themselves Nationals , they are infact Pseudo-Nationals who are just sad about the harsh realities not get energized for such issues in the country but more energized for such trivial issues bringing superficial justifications and diverting all the energy of the society from effective protests. So these protests are not National but protests for some beliefs which won’t provide any material requirements but rather an entertainment or self satisfaction which will benefit only the particular class which have satisfied their basic needs. So such protests is only for that particular class and not National.
LETS ASSUME IT IS TRUE.
So what ? So What ? Man has been going to moon, does that mean, only after letting every one have food, man should go to moon. there are millions starving. Does that mean, the billions spending on space technology, moon mission, other planet voyages should be banned. are they pseudo-scientists ? heartless creatures ?
- 2 points I would like to make here.
1) Making missions into moon and acquiring space technology have direct relation to the alleviation of poverty and it has shown results in our rural villages. They have been undertaken for the benefits of the humans which are “Materialistic” , these have touch with the realities of the world , these are not been done to uphold anybody’s false beliefs or entertain anybody. Whether these succeeded in eliminating poverty is another thing what their intentions are pretty clear.
2) As you have mentioned “We should have balance, a system which takes care of needy and hungry along with spending money for space, and reaching to stars.” .But the reality is that we don’t have such a balance. The government so far has been unable to provide such a balance.
So even for upgrading technology even if it is for human benefits , first the basic needs of all human beings should be satisfied and all the human beings should be given equal opportunities. Still Radical Land Reforms have not been undertaken in the country , Universal education for a child is still in words only , Public Distrbution system is executed with all its inherent flaws etc . First protest for these rights …… Or else protesting for this kind of Trivial Issues as “Nudity or Vulgarity” of Gods andt trying to polarize people in the name of Nationalism clearly shows that such immaterial protests are something which will keep this class in the limelight and which can give way for new leaders and not anything worthwhile.
2nd point
Rahul you told my vision for Indian History is not true. I asked you if that is not true you educate me with the right vision.
I asked you how the so called Caste system based on different occupations and which were basis of exploitaions occurred in India throughout the ages and still occurring through out various parts of India. Are you meaning it is because of different Genes , they have taken up various occupations automatically . Is it because of Genes certain people have become leaders , invaders, ????
Is it because of different Genes Castes occurred ? If so with the same genes , today when provided opportunities how the same low castes are showing improvements ????
Please don’t say such abstract justifications , it seems like codes. Answer how this diversity occurred in India if it were not for the Invasion? How this exploitation system occured???? How only few from the so called low castes still not able to pursue education , is it because fo Genes or is it because of no opportunities????
“Genes differ not because of different ENVIRONMENTS. But because they DIFFER, they 'simply' differ.” What is the meaning of this ? Atleast with 1 example can u explain this. If not then this is also just philosophy and not scientifism.
Mr. Poocha (so called)
Swantham peru polum parayahta ningalodu engane samsarikananu. Reveal yourself and debate, like others. Thats the way. And about Art. What do you want to know ? I have a little knowledge about it. and from my humble understanding of the world, a person who says others dont know, is nothing but arrogant and blind. take care
Nidhin
See your question is HYPOTHETICAL. But I understand the sincerity with which you ask that question. I will answer and ask a same hypothetical question to u too.
1. If I and my family were hungry, people around me had no food. OBVIOUSLY I will not have internet, neither have the facilities enough to protest Hussain. Very true. But What are u trying to prove, the only issue in the world is HUNGER, POVERTY. No, dear that where the assumption goes wrong. Ofcourse Hunger, poverty, unemployment are burning problems of India and Asia in general. But does that mean there are no other issues ?
My question to u.(forgive) IF YOU ARE BORN IN KASHMIR where Pakistani soldiers killed ur father, brother. molested, raped ur relatives, ur house and hard earned properties of ur family are burnt. Will you protest it, or say "No first let all hunger in the world vanish and then I will have fight back". Then will you take weapon for ur nation and family. ? Will u at least be a pseudo-national then than pseduo-theorotical?
Nidhin. The problem with the "paradigm", the basic viewpoint is...it is not falsifiable. Please search the meaning of the term.
II
T H E N A M O R E SERIOUS POINT
1. Regarding caste system and SAVARNA medhavittam, or "Brahminism"
SOME FACTS you can verify through net or books
1. Vedas are the fountain heads of the so-called hinduism. Vedas were compiled by the son of a fisherwomen, Vyasa. His mother's name was Satyavati
2. Ramayana was by a FOREST THUG, Valmiki, Ratnakara, not a brahmin.
(Still Valmiki Samajam is listed in "Backward caste"
3. The so-called differences you told about in general " A white, fair Aryan conquering Dark, black aborginals"... Rama was dark, Krishna was dark, thats why they are painted blue or dark.
Like Nehru, Karunanidhi says "Ramayana is a fight between Aryans and Dravidians" and Aryan Rama won over Dravidian Ravana.
Check which ever book u get.
Ravana was the son of a brahmana, called Visravas. He was "fair" as so called Aryans are.
Shankaracharyar accepted chandala as his GURU ( episode Manisha panchakam)
Gayatri mantra was by Viswamitra, non-brahmin.
(There have been mistakes in the past, not denying it: it was glorified by many for preaching their own ideas)
See Brahmin/Kshatriya/Vaisya/sudra
are priest/military/business/service
and Remember " Jananal Jayathe marthya, Karmana jayathe Vipra"
A brahmin is not by birth, he acquires the "brahma jnana" (wisdom). Same like no one is doctor by birth, they may have a natural instinct and liking, but only becomes a doctor after learning.
take eg: of Sabarimala, records of a thousand year are available, for the past 1000 years there was no untouchability, caste Discrimination or religious barrier. Dont generalise. thats not the way of objective study
sheri,
Question no 1.husaain aa painting seriesileeku kadakkumbool enthaayirikkum chinthichirikkuka?
Question no 2
ravivarma enthadishtaahanathilaanu swarasathiye angine varachathu?????
pinne ninte ee sarvavignanakoosham poole choodichoolu parayaam ennulla attitude onnu mattikoode?
daa njaan oru artist aanu! ninte koode ee cheriya kalikirangunnathu enikku naanakeeda! athu kondaa peeru velipeduthathathu!
nammal theerchayaayum parasparam ariyum!nee manushyane poole aakumengil!
ninte gaveeshanam nadakkatte!
To Mr. Nidhin
My humble salutations to you for letting me know that artists have a philosophical grip over their deeds, as one of the commonest human being and a dutiful devotee, I might not be as creative as you or your artists to have a grip of the several complex processes that are involved in analysing art, it’s my fault, accepted. And do not have the contingency and the final vocabulary to sustain the potential of that creative energy, not all can be a jackal, but just had the ease to call a spade a spade.
Yes, common man is not aware of art, especially when it deals with obscenity and defaming of a section of society, that ball game may be beyond common reach, in your words, the simple political doings. It is quite obvious that Hussain, the highest paid painter in India, who graduated from Mumbai’s prestigious Sir J J School of art is well above the reach of the creative aspirations and talk of a commoner. But again that does not give him the clean chit to depict the revered figure of a section of a society in a vulgar manner. Being a respective educated and responsive citizen, Hussain should have foreseen the wide spread effects of his deeds in a socially charged country. Not all are as generous and open hearted as Hussain or the modern day nationalists.
I understand Hussain got great awareness about God and Goddesses and he breathe freedom, what is this freedom? If you tell freedom, mean it, in your own words imagination and expression are not crime, then why the wild wings of imagination are spread always to cloud the religious sentiments of a particular community? As a respected artist why did not Hussain and his perpetuators answer the calls of an equally, though not as well acclaimed painter, Satish Gujral when asked him whether he will be bold enough to treat icons of Islam in the same manner? As long as a law exists in the statutes, nobody can be faulted for approaching the courts against Hussain's objectionable paintings, nor can the judiciary be pilloried for ordering action against the artist for his persistent and deliberate refusal to appear before the court.
I simply would not like to compare Ravivarma and Hussain, neither should you try to comment, its just as foolish as barking at the mighty Himalayas. But the intentions behind the obscenity in the paintings need to be addressed, debated and discussed; it’s the matter of a society’s collective faith and reason.
It is a universal truth; the most saddening pain of all is the pain of poverty. If born in a poor family where it is difficult to earn four squares for a decent meal can afford to discuss neither culture nor art. But that does not mean the rule of law and well being of the citizens has to be avoided, then you may term it anarchy. If the national flag is disrespected in a country by an elitist, and even if the country is home to half the poor on the planet, government or law enforcing bodies of the state are bound to take action, there must be thriving issues than the defaming of the national flag, but there it is not mere the question of a piece of cloth with few stripes or stars or symbol, it is the collective faith and belief of the country that is under question. This has to be given highest priority and strict action need to be taken against it. The presence of a large chunk of people without means of expresing their intellectual worth does not mean that those who really can make a difference through their voice need to keep mum when the most stupidest and grave act unveil just in front of them. True they need to cater their resources for the betterment of the less fortunate, but being born rich or well is not a sin!
Please stick to the topic, don’t beat around the bush, we are talking about Hussain’s paintings, it is true people who are brought up in indifferent conditions tend to show unexpected behavior in the societal life. Then how is it going to explain the sadism of Hussains who are born with silver spoons, and still disgusting the society with his creativity?
@Rahul
If I and my family were hungry, people around me had no food. OBVIOUSLY I will not have internet, neither have the facilities enough to protest Hussain. Very true. But What are u trying to prove, the only issue in the world is HUNGER, POVERTY. No, dear that where the assumption goes wrong. Ofcourse Hunger, poverty, unemployment are burning problems of India and Asia in general. But does that mean there are no other issues ?
----> I am quoting from one of my previous posts
“You asked about calling your Nationalism as Psuedo-Nationalism . What else is this? You protested against the nudity or vulgarity of the so called Gods , where were your voice when so many “real” incidents occurred in the society where small girls were gang raped or if you go to northern parts of the country there are many incidents were low caste women are being raped and made nude in front of the villagers through out (the same scene which you can find in the film Bandit Queen which is not just filmy but still happening in the rural parts of India) .These are not rare incidents , many other vulgarities are occurring there and the media inspite of knowing all these also, report once in a while only these.”
These are “Real” issues (please note the word real) which I have mentioned earlier also. Please don’t evade from this point and misinterpret that I mentioned there are only “economic problems” , I still reiterate that there are basic requirements which are the most priority and there are also such “Real Issues”. The issues which you term are not “Real” , they are superficial. That is the point I am making and which you are not understanding or trying to evade.
My question to u.(forgive) IF YOU ARE BORN IN KASHMIR where Pakistani soldiers killed ur father, brother. molested, raped ur relatives, ur house and hard earned properties of ur family are burnt. Will you protest it, or say "No first let all hunger in the world vanish and then I will have fight back". Then will you take weapon for ur nation and family. ? Will u at least be a pseudo-national then than pseduo-theorotical?
- Again this is a Real” issue , If I dream or I have a belief that Pakistan soldiers killed by parents ,is there any point in me going and taking revenge ?????? Same what you are having are beliefs and upholding those beliefs is way to maintain an artificial class to be identified along a particular class (wheras the vast problems still unsolved and about which you are sad could be resolved only by the identification of the Real classes of the society which will certainly disturb the existing hegemonies of the various sections) . So don’t try to compare the Real issues with the Superfiical beliefs ….
I asked you how the Caste stratification occurred in the question. It seems funny to me that you are answering like this. Thazzhna Jathi karanaya Valmiki Ramayanam ezhuthi , oru meenkariyude makanaya Vyasan Vedas ezhuthi , ithokke kaanichu njan chodicha utharathil ninnu oodalle. Eswar.
Indiayude Chief Justice oru Dalit aanu , appol Indiayil Dalit anubhavikunna kashtathakal veruthe udnakunnathalle , Dalitukal oru chooshanavum anubhavikunillalo ?????
Gayathri Manthram enthenno , Brahmanishthinte artham enthenno alla , ivide parayendathu …. I am again asking the questions ,, please don’t evade these questions
How a caste based society exist in India? How the so called low caste are in the low economy group, least educated , still not have access to education , land etc ?
How the land came to be occupied only by few people of the high caste groups ?? How the so called low caste groups made to work as slaves in their land and exploited them by taking all the profits of their hard work while denying them the due share?
Even after Independence why the majority of high caste groups able to pursie education while the majority of the low caste groups still not able to complete even primary education ???
Indaiyude yathratha history ariyunna Eswarinu , ivide book muzhuvan paste cheyendaa , onnu summarize cehythu parayaan nokku , Gaythari manthrathinte arthavum , matum parayunna samayathu..
@Indian
Where in my previous post I argued for the artistical grip of a artist or something like that ?? Was that for me ??
"It is a universal truth; the most saddening pain of all is the pain of poverty. If born in a poor family where it is difficult to earn four squares for a decent meal can afford to discuss neither culture nor art. " ---> Why you are being born in a society , whether it is because their incapablity or due to the erswhile exploitations occured in the society in the name of the superficial beliefs for you are now arguing , this is what I tried to tell through out my post and which sadly you are not capable of understanding ....
Please stick to the topic, don’t beat around the bush, we are talking about Hussain’s paintings, it is true people who are brought up in indifferent conditions tend to show unexpected behavior in the societal life. Then how is it going to explain the sadism of Hussains who are born with silver spoons, and still disgusting the society with his creativity?
---> You poor ability of not able to think broad or relate the widening aspects of the society made me to post such a whole post , still you are not able to understand... You were arguing as a National , and that is what I proved wrong through my previous posts ...
If you are leaving the National tag and posting as a staunch Hinduist , again refer my posts for how such superficial beliefs cause no material benifits to the society but only the superficial satisifcation to the mind which can be enjoyed by a group who have beifited through the exploitations in the society....
Hussain disguising a society ??? hahaha You mean disguising a society already disguised ???
"Criticizing just for the cause of it is not going to gain any thing."
We all are with you Rahul. You are not alone.:)Don't give ears for rubbish comments!Don't waste your valuable time.
Me too Rahul...
We are living in a historical context. And this society is not a monolithic entity. We have different sections of people different religious and class groups.
Not every one is living in the same age. When you say we are living in the 21st century we know that the Tribals in the wayanad are not living in the 21st century. A section of progressive people may be staying a few steps ahead of the rest of the society. Not everyone who live in 21st century live in 21st century.
But the rule of the progress is that we always go forward. And there will be forces in the society which want to force the whole world to take retrograde steps back to middle age.
If one person is a nuclear engineer doesnt mean he is more civilized than the rest of society. An illiterate guy can be more advanced in terms of civilization.
Due to historical reasons, some sections of society may be living a few years behind the time. This could be a religious group, a particular caste, a political party followers etc. And again, there is no generalization possible.
Any progressive person has the responsibility to see we take steps which will help the rest of the society to advance. We dont take steps which will push the society back several decades or centuries.
There is a lot of disparity existing in the society. We need to address them. There are different perspective possible. However the most scientific outlook possible is to look at the society as different classes. That doesnt mean there is not difference between religious groups. There are certain religious groups, in general, the members of which are far behind the rest. There are certain tribes the members of which, in general, are far behind the rest of society. Even communists, who emphasis on Class approach to the solutions to the societal problems, do not say that there is no dispartiy between social groups, religious groups, gender etc.
But our history shows that trying to address the disparity between different identity based groups and having an identity based approach could be disastrous.
Taking an identity based approach is the first step towards regrouping on identity based groups. Thus taking a view on religious angle is the first step towards regrouping on a religious line. The problem here is that, there is no solution to the actual problems if we rally behind a religious identity or a caste identity or a regional identity or a gender identity.
Take the example of Dalit politics in India. Dalits remain one of the most backward sections despite decades of Dalit politics. Muslims united on Muslim identity nearly a century now, and more dispartiy exists between Muslims themselves now. Take the women in USA. The single mother women in USA are the most struggling sections in USA and the feminist movements in USA is a disaster if you look at the actual results. USA is the land of Black politics and they are the most backward groups there still.
When Jinnah first took a religious line, he never intended to have a rabid communal approach. He never thought that his asking for the rights of Muslim community will in the long run lead to polarization of society on religious line and will lead to partitian and lead to formation of groups like Jamaat E- Islami and the kind of extremists fundamentalist politics in Pakistan now.
In the same way, taking a fundamentally religious view towards the SOCIAL CHANGES is going to be disastrous. (religioun is not a tool for social change, but for individual spiritual gains)
Any responsible human being is duty bound to take a secular and progressive approach to the societal problems.
Does that mean denying the existing of diffferences between sections on religious line? No.
If some Muslim groups in Paletine has taken a more fundamentalist view, that is not a justification for a Christian to take the same view in India. Then you are competing each other for a race back ward to medieval times. If on Shah Bano case, Muslims in general has taken a regressive path, that doesnt mean Hindus should demand for the right to Talaq and demand not to give compensation.
This is because the history which led to the progress of different religious groups is not same.
Mostly in India Muslims are more back ward than other communities on modern education. And Christians are more forward in modern education. The present day Hindus and Muslims and Christians are not responsible for this situation. That is the way history progressed.
Due to Historical reasons, Industrial revolution first happened in Europe. And the fruits of Industrial revolution and Scientific revolution first went to Europeans. And as those systems were predominantly Christians, Christians in general got benefited with the modern scientific temper. And Christian in general are more forward in terms of modern education.
It was the Colonialists who started the first industry in India. It is the Christian missionaeries who spread the modern education in India first. (they may have spread that for their own purpose like spreading religion).
When British came to India, India was ruled by Muslim rulers both in Delhi and in most other states like Mysore etc. And most part of India Provincial Governers and regional Satraps were Muslims. Again due to historical reasons, Hindu kings mostly tried to work as British subordinates without fighting against them except glorious exceptions like our Pazhassi Raja.
And Muslims in India knew about the war of crusade between Christain rulers and Muslim rulers in the past. And there were tussle between Arab traders and Europeans for hegemoney in global trade. Due to all these reasons, when British got hegemony in India, Muslims were mostly trying to resist them what ever possible way. Due to this reason Muslims in general tried to reject the Modern education mostly spread by Christian dominated institutions and establishments. Muslims in India viewed Modern education something by British and Christians against their traditional religious educational programmes.
Though as a religion and the set of religious practise, Christianity is less progressive compared to Islam, the followers of Christianity absorbed modern education more compared to Muslim followers. As Hinduisms was not an organized religiuos entity, there was no organized resistance against Christian sponsored modern education.
Thus the degree of absorption of modern education and modern thoughts by different religious groups vary.
Thus, when it comes to freedom of art, a simplistic approach is not possible. Different sections have different traditions. What is more important is that Governements should allow these liberal approach to develop. On occasions govermnents may have to interfere and prevent some acts by artists, in order to prevent law and order problems. But any goverment should have a long term approach to help liberal thougts to prevail and develop. A simplistic rule is not possible. Governmnets should take action on a case by case manner. But while doing so, even if a goverment has to ban an art work or a book, government should clarify that it is only an administrative step and governments should commit itself for the liberal approach. Also goverments should encourage liberal thoughts.
This may create controversy. This may draw criticism by conservatives and religious fundamentalists arguing that there is double standard practised by goverments. But let us understand that despite all the noise made by fundamentalists and conservatives, the world always moved forward.
As it is well known now, Christians as an organized religion always tried to impose rigid fundmental rules on its followers from time to time. Even now the Vatican is opposing to child control measures. But no educated Christian is keen to obey what Vatican want them to do. Thus modern education and own experience in life, prompt Christians in India not to strictly follow what the religious heads tell them. Again there is no generalizatoin. There are fundamentalist christians in India. But comapred to the 33% of born again Christains in USA, Indian Christians are more progressive. Though compared to Indian system, USA is a more progressive system in general terms.
I gave this lengthy description to point out the futility of approach in competing with other religious followers in terms of conservativeness. A government may have to ban the picture of Allah but at the same time allow the nude picture of Goddess Saraswati. This is because, never in the known History Muslims encouraged depicting the picture of God and Islam has a tradtion of opposing idol worship and giving forms to Gods. But Hindu Gods never wore any dress.
It was Raja Ravi Varma who srarted paining Hindu Goddess in Sari. None of Indian ancient temples have Goddess fully dressed. Actually only after the Western influence, later period of Hindu Goddess started wearing dress. This is proved by variuos historians. But later Shivakasi calendars made Ravi Varma's or paintings imitating Ravi Varma style. Thus the modern Hindu generation's collective memory has the image of Hindu Goddesses similar to what Ravi Varma painted and not 16th century Temple sculptures of Goddesses.
Historically Hindus (or those sections who are now considered as Hindu Religious followers) were not ruled by any organized religiuos authorities. Thus there was a lot of pluralism and a lot of liberal approach practised by Hindus through out the centuries.
Right now we are living in a particular historical context. In a minuscule span of time carved out of eternity. We owe our legacy to thousands of generations before us and responsible for the thousands to be followed.
What right we have got to force the flow of the life back to several centuries?
Due to historical reasons, Hindus in India were always liberal. The Victorian concept about sex and vulgarity was not applicable to Indians till recently. Sex was never considered a sin by Indians. Talking about sex, depicting sexual art was not a taboo. On the contrary, it was considered divine.
Go to Sri Padmanabha Swami temple in Thiruvanatha puram you can see all type of "vulgar" arts there. You dont need to go to Khajurao to see them. What is Geeta Govindam? What is the story of Rishya Sringa? Arguing that some one mated with a deer was never considered a sin. Our vedas actually adivice people to even mate with animals. Can we ban Vedas?
Parallel to that is the liberalism practised in the art movement, there were few societies which encouraged more liberal approach. Hinduism/India was one such society. In a way art is the expression of suppressed desires. What is not allowed in regular society often find places in art. And often in India art was considered closer to God and spirituality. When we sing "Kodungallurammena pannanamengilu, Kodimaram polathe Kunna venam" (one needs a penis larger than the pole the temple flag to copulate with Goddess") it is not considered as vulgar. On the contrary, it is a divine spiritual experience.
What I say is, what was not possible for the western societies for centuries, we the people of India enjoyed without much difficulties and restrictions. When certain things were considered taboo in west, India allowed them. In a way what artists all over the world enjoy as artists' freedom and liberal approach, was an age old concept for the general society in India.
Thus Hinduism has something common with liberalism and of art. But Hinduism has very little in common with the rigid practises of organized religiouns.
Now the question is where are we going? Are we going backward to a more rigid society? Are we going forward to a more liberal more plural society?
The more advanced thinking in the art field is closer to deconstruction theory. Please search about deconstruction theory and read more. (yes, I know you may be knowing that better already).
The modern approach is to take art and literature as what it is. In modern approach, we dont worry what the artist or writer originally thought about it. Thus if Sita was okay with Rama abandoning her according to Valmiki Ramayana is not relevant in modern age. But even a few decades back, when Kumaran Asan made Sita to talk against Rama, it became a big controversy. But by making Sita to talk against Rama in "Chintavishtayaya Sita", Kumaran Asan helped the Kerala society to leap forward several centuries. The sparks of modern feminists thoughts were spread in Kerala society by Asan.
Thus the works in art and literature help the society to move forward several leaps. But when the artists do that, it creates friction in society. It creates tension. It helps society divide between progressive people who has better IQ thus are able to absorb the futuristic approach, and conservative people with less IQ who can not get a clue about futuristic societies. This tension is inevitable, and the society has to take the pain of this tension and tussles between conservatives and progressives.
M.F. Hussein is a Hindu follower, though he is born in Muslim religion. He came up in life as a n ordinary artist who painted bill boards etc for Mumbai film world. Even before he becoming famous he worship a local Hindu Goddess.
If M.F. Hussein wanted to create controversy and become famous, he could have easily drawn Hindu Goddess in nude in a more traditional way.
If you have to verify this, I suggest one method. Those who are agitated by M.F. Hussein's art works, let them take each of M.F.Hussein's art works (not all are paintings) and go infront of a temple in some village. And let them show this artwork to hundred visitors coming to that temple and ask their opinion. (These devotees should not be those who have already heard of M.F.Hussein controversy). I can bet not a single soul will get agitated by M.F.Hussein's art work. Not a single soul will even think that the Hindu Goddess were portrayed in them.
It is only the low intelligent publicity greedy guys who are giving detailed description that they are Hindu Goddesses and Gods. M.F. Hussein has never claimed that they are Hindu Gods or Goddesses.
Among all these art works only one of them has a tiltel written as Saraswathi, written in Hindi. But that was not written by Hussein himself. That was only a sketch M.F. Hussein has drawn in 1970s. After that he doesnt know where that is. No artist keep his artwork at his home. But in late 1990s just before local body elections to be conducted in an Indian state, the Hindu fascists found a use with an art work done by M.F.Hussein several decades back. An RSS man re-published the art work in a vernacular language periodical run by pro-RSS magazine to instigate hatred and passion. this guy clearly appealed the ordinary Hindus to raise against Hussein just like some guys doing now.
Who scribbled the word "saraswathi" at bottom is not known now. When that was done is not known. Remember when M.F. Hussein drew that art work some of these people who are creating controversy was not even born. But their parents never got agitated. Millions of Hindu devotees' feeling never got hurt till BJP-Shivsena wanted to face a local body election.
Please understand that most of these artworks discussed here are written or painted several decades back. It never hurt anyone's sentiment for decades. Infact after this Pro-RSS guy re-published this art work explaining that it is Hindu Goddess, that editor was interviewed by other journalists. And this pro-RSS editor admitted that he can not understand modern art, and he has no reason to argue that they are Hindu Goddesses, but he simply insisted they are hindu Goddesses.
This is the same thing our guys doing here. What is the evidence that M.F.Hussein has indeed painted Hindu Goddesses? I agree there is resemblance. But an ordinary Hindu will never suspect that is a Hindu Goddess. I myself has shown these paintings to tens of Hindu devotees without the description and asked their opinion. In fact nearly 10 years back when an RSS supporter argued with me saying that M.F. Hussein is hurting Hindu sentiments, I took several magazines and showed several modern art reviews to him. He looked at all these paintings. And as part of these paintings, I also showed the so called "saraswathi" sketch by M.F. Hussein to this guy. That guy didnt utter any thing. After all these I asked him if his Hindu sentiment was hurt by any of these artworks. He said NO. Then I told him that the MF hussen art he was complaining is the same what he just viewed. And I explained him that that was drawn even before he was born. And he didnt believe originally that it was the same controversial art. But he agreed to me that, that wont really hurt any Hindu sentiment.
I suggest all those whose sentiments are already hurt to do this simple experiment. Go to their homes and show these paintings to their grandmothers and grand fathers and ask their opinion. If they have not heard about the controversy and if they have not already seen these paintings, their feelings wont be hurt. (remember not to show the descriptions attached to the art works by third parties)
Where did M.F.Hussein claim that he has painted Hindu Goddess? If his aim is to get cheap publicity, why should he paint abstract arts? He can easily paint a more obvious art.
Weather Hussein paintings use symbols from Hindu mythology is not relevant here. Hussein's Hanuman has no resemblence with any Hanuman in the Ramayana. Hussein's Hanuman is more like an ordinary monkey. In fact Husein is only using a symbol and he never gives a clear form to images. Even his Mother Teresa series do not show the face of Mother.
Now, let us agree for arguments' sake that Hussein is painting this for creating controversy for getting cheap publicity.
Okay, but then we need to agree that he miserably failed in his attempt to get cheap publicity for the first 25 years. No one even bothered to look at his art work he painted for creating cheap publicity for himself. During this 25 years Hussein foolishly sit idle. He could have given an interview to two or three magazines like some of our guys do (talk with TV channels etc) and claimed or indicated that he drew the images of Saraswathi only. But amazingly this foolish Hussein who wanted to create cheap publicity for himself, drew a few vulgar paintings of Goddesses and sit idle without uttering a word about that for long 25 years or more. Then all of a sudden BJP-Shivsena combine wanted to face local body election and re-published these arts with descriptive narration claiming that they are Hindu Goddess. And now some other guys are re-publishing with more agressive descriptions. Now think of it-- The ICL head who is the main sponsor of Teheka news magazine is an RSS man. But he didnt have any difficulty to finance Tehelka when Tehelka revealed all the scams by BJP leaders. Thus when it comes to money a lot of people dont look their ideology. Thus we have very strong reasons to suspect that these guys are actually paid by Hussein himself to create controversy. This is more relevant because Hussein himself miserably failed during his first 25 years after painting these so called controversial paintings. Obviously he might have given contract to some other guys to create controversy for him. Dont you think this is a valid argument?
Now who is hurting the sentiments of believers? There are uncivilized guys who get some indirect satisfaction by giving detailed descriptions about what they think is wrong. If the paintings by themeselves did not hurt the sentiments of the believers for decades after published, and if now they are hurting the sentiments, then it is obvious, it is the descriptions provided at the bottom of paintings what hurt the sentiments. Think again. It is not M.F.Hussein who is hurting the religious sentiments. It is those who give a very detailed description arguing that they are about Hidu Gods and Hindu Goddess , actually hurting religious sentiments.
Some of the descriptions provided are obviously wrong. They are nonsense. Some of them are only wild imagination of these so called "protectors of Hindu feelings". These people with low IQ are re-printing and re-selling them in the controversy market.
Think of this--- Paris Hiliton claims that she has made more money than what ever she could have been inherited from Hotel business from her grandfather.
These controversy makers are getting immensely benefited by this controversy.
Did you know Rahul Eswar before Shabarimala Controversy? What is his credentials? What are his skill sets? What is his contribution to the history and society?
It is clear that he is a small fry who wold have live and die in one remote corner of the world not known by many people of the world. But by making these controversies they are getting popularity
Thus these guys are selling Hussein paintings in controversy market, for their benefit. Remember popularity in modern times means money. Popularity can be converted to money easily tomorrow.
Thus these guys are hurting the sentiments of ordinary devotees by giving detailed descripitons to unknown paintings done by Hussein, most of them Hussein painted several decades back, and by re-selling them in controversy market, they are getting benefits.
Dear Historians,
But in MF Hussain’s case, the case is different. 8 years ago, Hussain portrayed a painting of four leaders. (He depicted Einstein, Gandhiji, Mao and Hitler). In the same, he depicted Hitler as naked. During an interview about that
painting, Hussain made it clear that, he has depicted Hitler naked to humiliate him as he deserves it! After some years he started portraying the Hindu god (Goddess) as naked. Can’t tell it as only naked, it was vulgar.
I don’t have any question to you. You just think about it.
Rahul, you are not alone.
Rahul,
You are not alone.
@ Abhishek
Whether it is Einstein or Gandhiji or Mao or Hitler , you think and tell me whether these are real personalities who existed in this world? Or Do these personalities existed through various different books only ???
Even drawing a cartoon the person is resembled in some way through that cartoon , because that person has an identity which everyone knows. If you make a painting of the person which doesn't have any resemblance (for gandhiji resemblance may be his specs ,baldness, clothing etc) with him , do u protest if someone else say that that is so and so person , if u protest then you can protest for anything in this world for which only u can give the justification...
As Nirmal told can u make out from the picture whether it is Sita or Ram or Hanuman if the painter didnt make such mentions.
A naked girl sitting on the lap of a man and a monkey looking at it , if u show it to a person who doesn't know about the controversy as Nirmal told , can he make out it is Sita Devi whom he is praying is being humiliated???
A real person whose presence everyone knows and has identity even if any person don't know about the controvery , from the picture he can make out whether it is that person or not...
Just think about it ......
Yes Rahul!
MFH could have been more sensible while depicting it.
Rahul,
You are not alone.
Don't waste your time for unnecessary comments!
Take Care man!
Rahul,
I am with you.
"Criticizing just for the cause of it is not going to gain any thing."
Take Care Rahul... We are with you.
We are with you Rahul.
Take care man!!!
Yes Rahul!
We are with you.
Nidhin & Nirmal, it is you who people who taken out the topic and allowed others to enjoy the benefits. For past some months no comments were there in this blog... You too please think about it all.
May be now Nidhin, Nirmal, Poocha, and others too can stop debating and invite all your friends to scribble "WE support you" and "We are with you".... ;-)
Its really easy guys.... especially in this IT age, just send out a forwarded mail asking for it... no one will even bother to read what is happening in this blog... but definitely they will post their comments and forward it !!
Fantastic Rahul......M F Hussain should be kicked out for this act of his.He has done it just for publicity....even though he has a good fan following....good one man
We are with you
vinod, the people who comments in this blog supportig rahul are people who get in to a situation called 'implosion'! they just read and react! never think!
Vinod, What ever be the cause,(it is not necessary to describe it here), we are supporting Rahul!!Every one will have their own reasons!
Others, Don't think, we are new to the blog. We were there from the starting itself!To experience the every pulse of it. Anyway, that doesn't matter! You can ponder what ever you want to...
Best regrads Rahul!
gr8 wrk rahul....evidenna ithu poole charapara ennu 'v r with u Rahul' enna comments kittunathu...ithrayum naalu ithonnum kandillallo????kure kashtapedunundalle....eee commentsum delete cheyumoo???
Whenever you do something it is better to ask the question “WHY you are doing it” by yourself! I have got a very clear answer for the question, for why I am here…
It is easy to blabber anything…
Debates should be healthy…It is not the place to laugh at each other!! Nothing is giving any explanation for MF Hussain’s stupidity. His acts are wrong! He could have been more careful while doing it. Every one knew this, but many don’t want to accept this, because of their own Ego.
I am with Rahul, because he protects what I consider as divine. Rahul, thank you for doing this for many like me!
To support/like some one, it is not required to consider their skill set as a measure! It is not required some one should have a long skill list to pay our respect! And it is not necessary that, an individual should respect some one if he/she had a long skill list with their name. I respect or support an individual for what they are!!!
It is not about what you study…. It is all about how you study….How you learn… how you perceive….
Good going Rahul…
I have written in my last write up that in our Vedas and Puranas it is advised to have sex with animals. And detailed descriptions of the same are given. There is nothing strange in that for Hindu mythology. No one takes it as offended... These descriptions shows how freely perverted sex is written and advised in Hindu Holy texts.
Those people who seriously mistake portraying Hindu Gods/Goddesses were depicted in our epics as decently dressed and morally of high standard, better understand that It is the European influence that made Hindu Gods/Goddesses appear in its present forms wearing Sari. THERE IS ALMOST NO HINDU GODDESS WHO IS NOT NAKED IN ANY OF OUR ANCIENT TEMPLES. Thus those who argue for NOT PAINTING Hindu Gods/Goddesses nude are actually advocating from the platform of "Christianized Hinduism" or "Europeanized Hinduism".
See the examples below and decide how freely the sex was discussed in Hindu texts:
"An adulterer shall be made to pay the highest penalty if he has had connection with a woman of his own caste; for adultery with women of a lower caste, the second penalty; the same (fine is ordained) for a bestial crime committed with a cow. He who has had connection with a woman of one of the lowest castes, shall be put to death. For a bestial crime committed with cattle (other than cows) he shall be fined a hundred Karshapanas."
The above is from Visnusmrti 5:40-44
These hymns are from Yajur Veda:
"All wife of the host reciting three mantras go round the horse. While praying, they say: 'O horse, you are, protector of the community on the basis of good qualities, you are, protector or treasure of happiness. O horse, you become my husband.'"
Above is from Yajur Veda 23/19.
"After the animal is purified by the priest, the principal wife sleeps near the horse and says: 'O Horse, I shall extract the semen worth conception and you release the semen worth conception'"
Above is from Yajur Veda 23/20.
The horse and principal wife spread two legs each. Then the Ardhvaryu(priest) orders to cover the oblation place, raise canopy etc. After this, the principal wife of the host pulls penis of the horse and puts it in her vagina and says: "This horse may release semen in me."
The above is from Yajur Veda 23/20.
During Ashwa Metha, the queens are supposed to mate with dead horses. And I dont want to quote from Hindu Puranas some instances of famous mythical personalities - queens-- doing the same, because many people who have knowledge about Ramayana only through Amar Chitra Katha or TV serials cant expect what is actually written in Ramayana.
Can we argue we should ban Ramayana, Should we ban Yajur Veda, our Smirithis and Puranas. Probably we should also file case in the court against all publishing houses which publish Ramayana Original text. Should we follow the example of RSS-Bhajrang Dal who attacked and destroyed Hussein painting-- should we do the same with the Ramayana, Puranas and Vedas and Smrithis?
Perhaps the below given news item will explain what our publicity greedy bloggers, and Hindutva fanatics will do against Valmiki if he is reborn. What would be in store for Veda Vyasa (who separated Vedas) if he ever comes back. Read the following article and decide:
Press Trust of India reports: 'Hindu Personal Law Board'. The 'board president' one Ashok Pandey is reported to have stated that anyone who eliminates M.F.Husain would get a reward of Rs 51 crore. The Hindu leader states, " Anyone who kills Hussain for making obscene paintings of goddess Saraswati and Bharat Mata, the Danish cartoonist, those in the German company printing pictures of Ram and Krishna on tissue paper and the French filmmaker desecrating Lord Shiva will be given Rs 51 crore in cash."
Who are barbarians?
India as a nation is facing many problems, but any of them will never dim MFH stupid act!!! If any others has got problem for any of the issues that India as a nation faces today, they could have do some type of act or protest against whatever they consider as wrong(they should own their own blog or what ever media they prefer), instead of discouraging or pulling some one’s leg who showed courage to protest against a thing, , that he felt as against his ethics!
Debating “ON A TOPIC” is not about laughing at any one for a no reason!!! It is not about blabber the same thing again and again!!! Not about taking others attention to some where else!!! All readers are not just fools!!!
Good Work Rahul!
Take Care Man!
India is not a religion, it is a civilization!
Any of us are not trying to promote any “isms”! If any of the reader who wanted to read it in that way, we are totally helpless for your foolishness!!! We are for India. For what we believe as correct. Not for any “isms”. Not to promote any “isms”. We are for human beings!
Jai Bharath!
Rahul, always Be Cheerful!!!
In the mythology the caste(?) system raised according to the service they do. According to the job the individual does!!! It was not actually caste, the translators had given interpretation of that division as caste. People can refer the original sanskrit scripts and can translate as their own!!!they can perceive as per their view.
This is what we tried to tell in the starting itself, "the quality of individual is depends on how they perceive; not on what they studied!! It is on how they studied!! Some people are proving it again and again by their own wonderful comments!!!:)
No one is superior by birth; the deeds make them superior later in their life!!
As author quoted some where,
“Janmnaal jaayathe martya,
Brahmajnaaneethu brahmana”
I am with you Rahul!
Enjoy!
@Vasudha
Nerathe aaro Personal attackine kurichu parayunathu kettu . Individualinte qualityilottu pokunathu athallayirikum....
athokke potte , I asked the author to give the true version of history (baaki schoolil padipikunathokke potta thetukal aanenkil) and also raised some questions on the roigin of Caste (sorry Division), athinu shesham pettennu "Rahul , I support you" ennu paranju kurach comments mathram.... enthaayalum ellavarkum vere vere perukalaanu , ore perialla support....
Nirmal has stated some verses mentioning the verse or line no: also. A verses correct aayitalla paranjenkil athu correct aayi manasilakkiyitullavar (quality ullavar) correct aayittu translate cheyooo........
Pinne ee Caste (anganthe vaaku ketitee ilenkil) or division engane undaayi ennu chodichirunu , oraal cheyunna joli anusarichanu ee disvision enkil allathe aarum adichelpichathallenkil ,
Shudran aaya oraal swayam Volunteer aayi vannu njan ningale moonupereyum sevicholaam ennu parayum ennanu thankal paranju varunathenkil enikku potti chirikaane nivarthi ullu ....
anyway let the supports continue ....
Can you please speak in English?
I am here to support rahul!!Only to support him.:).
No one can change any one! So you too can't change me!
We supports him. Not for any "isms". For what we feel as correct!!Probabaly I am not interested for a debate with you. We all are here to support him, because in our perception he is correct!Good Bye!
Hi Rahul,
Good going Man!
Take Care!
"The quality of individual is depends on how they perceive; not on what they studied!! It is on how they studied!!"
We all are with you Rahul!
We are for humanity!
Take care man!
Don't waste your valuable time on this unnecessary comments!
Vande mataram!!!
Great thinking Rahul!
"Criticizing just for the cause of it is not going to gain any thing"
TC Buddy...Don't waste you time for unnecessary comments.
You are not alone...
Vande Mataram!!!
NIRMAL,
He is quoting wrongly. Perverted interpretations to paint India and Indian civilisation bad.
Nirmal Have you ever read any of these texts.
DONT COPY AND PASTE FROM SOME IMMATURE INTERNET SITES AND THINK THAT IS YAJUR VEDA OR RIG VEDA.
I WELCOME A DETAILED DEBATE. AND THE LINES HE QUOTED ARE FALSE, FABRICATED, AND CONSCIOUSLY DISTORTED
THEN POOCHA
I R R E L E V A N T enough to be ignored.
Then NIDHIN
You have not answered any of the questions I raised.
And You even cleverly esacped the question about ur family and other Indians being killed by Foreign soldiers. YOU CLEVERLY ESCAPED
Dont do that.
Dont be blind, You vision is very biased. That is not the right way to find truth, Right and facts.
Pseudo-theoritical, pseudo-intellectual and pseduo-ideological will never help
YOU AGAIN CLEVERLY ESCAPED THE SYMONDS, NAKED MAN - Mahavira QUESTION.
CASTE is a functional, social, classification. Not innate, apriori classification. DONT PAINT INDIAN HISTORY BAD...SO THAT "SOME PARTIES" can say WE MADE HERE BETTER.
For In a land like India where we have a civilization and cultural sensibilities of over 5000 years; it should be the guiding principle.
Well said Vasudha....
You are here to support Rahul and just to support Rahul.... and nothing else... It may not really matter to you or some others what is being discussed here....
and this is not your or other's fault. The essence of these feelings can be obtained from what Prajnya said "I am with Rahul, because he protects what I consider as divine." And she is thankful to you Rahul.
This is the very fundamental problem which our civilization had to face right from the beginning. A lot of unknowns.... the vastness of ignorance about ourselves and our universe.... nobody did have any proper means to explain all these and then.... somebody had a well thought about plan to explain it their way.. and then they created supernaturals and they became the guardians....
people fear to discuss religion and beliefs. Why ? they are taught so. it sounds very nice to hear this
"Janmnaal jaayathe martya,
Brahmajnaaneethu brahmana"
but how many of you had the right to choose your religion or caste..?
how many of you had the liberty to even think why you believe in something...? its considered taboo to not just speak against a belief, but even to think about the reason why we have to believe in something?
Its not the question of one M F Hussain.... If we go for a Root Cause Analysis:
all these paintings and depictions were here around us for centuries, in our own local temples, in the sculptures, in the Vedas and everywhere.... we were not seeing them.... or rather we were taught to ignore them...
Now we tend to see all these in something pointed by the so called guardians.... !!
one by one humans were able to solve the mysteries around them... but its still a long long way to go for us to get even a small clarity about ourselves.... it may sound impossible today, but history has shown that it will happen one day, we all discussing this here will not be present then for sure. So we have two choices
either you can continue the way you are - totally unwilling to change, you are guided by well planned emotions triggered centuries back. this is very easy, because you don't have to think much, you are already taught, and you can teach others before they can think on their own. You can follow, preach others, fight the rest, live your whole life and die not knowing the real reason why you did this or what is this ?
or you can apply the simple ideas of reasoning and draw your own conclusion based on your inferences. preach the generations to come the methodologies you used, but not your conclusions. let them too use their brains and formulate their beliefs.
this fight will continue... at least for some more units in the human timescale... but their will be a day when people recognize the vacuum in the arguments itself that guide these kind of blogs...
TO ALL READERS...
Our History was consciously distorted to paint our Indian culture BLACK AND BAD.
NIDHIN Says THere was "BRAHMANA Supremacy" and Sudra Was to SERVE THE OTHER 3 (according to a verse where it is said Brahmin comes from mouth, Kshatriya from shoulders,etc...)
DEAR NIDHIN.
ANGANE AANENKIL
( I AGAIN ASK BECAUSE U ESCAPED QUESTIONS )
1. VED VYASA Was never a BORN BRAHMIN
2. VALMIKI NEVER A BORN BRAHMIN
3. Viswamitra never a born brahmin
Brahmin is brahma jnanethu Brahmana. or Brahmin is a degree acquired.
These people fall for the BRITISH versions of HISTORY DESIGNED TO CREATE I N F E R I O R I T Y C O M P L E X in Indian's mind. Britishers want to project that they came and made us human and civilised.
We had a great civilisation here when people has not even been there in Greece. Indain civilisation is the oldest living civilisation.
THESE PEOPLE BRAIN WASHED BY BRITISHERS AND CERTAIN IDEOLOGIES WILL REALISE THE VALUE OF INDIANNESS , for sure in future.
"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history,
the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and
most astrictive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only"
MARK TWAIN
"I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges,
astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc." –
Source : Voltaire, Lettres sur l'origine des sciences et sur celle des peuples de l'Asie
(first published Paris, 1777), letter of 15 December 1775.
A time will come in future, for sure, when India will again reclaim her glory, her lost global power, her lost Supremacy over the world. May we all live till that dawn. Vande Mataram
If we observe history, HISTORY was always a political weapon, either in hands of right wing or left wing.
Nidhin ...even now political parties use it. Both Saffron and Red. But dont fall for both propagandas.
Please refer Frawley's paradox and
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5940792325193398985
There were people who always wanted to exaggerate and paint Indian history black. ANd there were people who always wanted white-wash it too! True.
Try to be impartial, grow beyond petty party driven history. Be Impartial and truthful to history
Such superficial comments by V I N O D
Vinod...Have you ever seen closely what paintings are there in temples. Have you read anything on them. Have you ever read fully any vedic or Indian spiritual or philosophic text.
PEOPLE PREACH without knowledge.
Thats the danger our nation faces.
Remember 100 years back they said
"Ayurveda is nothing but, ancient tribal people who doesnt know ENGLISH MEDICINE treating by using superstition and forest plants"
75 years back they said
"Indian is having 'pagan', tribal, primitive, belief system and no spirituality here. Indians need to be educated in culture and spirituality
50 years back they said
"Yoga was nothing but waste of time and simply showing useless actions"
Now the world realises some of the globally rapidly growing phenomena are from India, whether it is Ayurveda, spirituaity or Yoga.
But sadly Indians' or so-called pseudo nationals, pseudo-intellectuals, show-off theorists still hasnt realised the soul of this very soil,
They will for that is true.
"If I were asked under what sky the human mind has most fully developed some of its choicest gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problems of life, and has found solutions, I should point to India - Max Mueller
Vinod, it is not necessary to explain why we are here!
we supports Rahul for what he believe. As suvidha told... We are here for a cause. We supports him, because in our perception he is correct! You can always deny the opinion of others (as you specified it for suvidha) by your sadist comments! But that doesn't discourage any of us! We are here for rahul!To support what we believe as correct!!!
Rahul, good going buddy!
Take Care.
I would suggest don't waste your time for rubbish comments!
Vinod, for us it is fun to read your comments!
Believe buddy, we are not just a single person! Or not even a group of 5 or 6. Our research is not on the surface level for anything!
The people of your cult will take time to understand all those!!!
India is not a religion, it is a civilization!
Good Going Rahul!
We can't change any one Rahul!If they want to understand or accept some thing, they should help out themselves! you can just show the path!
You have not answered any of the questions I raised.
I have answered to all the questions you raised , I asked you If u think I dodnt answer mention those once again, after all I have been repeating the questions in each post and just saying you didn’t answer …. So mention your questions…
And You even cleverly esacped the question about ur family and other Indians being killed by Foreign soldiers. YOU CLEVERLY ESCAPED .
Rahul I find this funny , coz how many times I ned to repeat the same dude … Again quoting from my own previous posts …
“Again this is a Real” issue , If I dream or I have a belief that Pakistan soldiers killed by parents ,is there any point in me going and taking revenge ?????? Same what you are having are beliefs and upholding those beliefs is way to maintain an artificial class to be identified along a particular class (wheras the vast problems still unsolved and about which you are sad could be resolved only by the identification of the Real classes of the society which will certainly disturb the existing hegemonies of the various sections) . So don’t try to compare the Real issues with the Superfiical beliefs ….” If you are not able to understand this (how I used simple language only ) , it is ok , I will spoon feed you.
Raping my dear ones , or raping your dear ones is “Rape” only , it occurred , it is a “Real” . It is not a story which me or you heard from somewhere or trying to belive or a story which we made by our own and trying others to believe…
Real ennu paranjaal sherikkum nadannathu , sherikkum ullathu , Njan , Rahul enne paranja aalkara sherikkum ullavar ( manasilayo ??) , allathe oru padathil oru pennu oru mansuhyante purathirikunu (athinte detailed Thankal paranjitundallo , athu kondu picture manasilakathathavarkkum manasilakum) , athu Nirmal paranjathu pole ee controversy arinjoodathe aareyenkilum kondu poyi kanikkoo..
Pinne evide njan engane aanu escape aayathu cleverly ???? Do u expect me to give the answer which you expect ???
The difference between Real & Superficial ethra pravshyam njan postukalil koodi paranju , kashtam … I think I am wasting time just like you…
Oru example koodi , I am quoting again from another of my post when I tried to answer this rela & superficial thing to another reader who raised a picture issue by Hussain..
“
YOU AGAIN CLEVERLY ESCAPED THE SYMONDS, NAKED MAN - Mahavira QUESTION.
--- Please paste that question again… not able to find …
“CASTE is a functional, social, classification. Not innate, apriori classification. DONT PAINT INDIAN HISTORY BAD...SO THAT "SOME PARTIES" can say WE MADE HERE BETTER. “
So I asked you several times “you give a true version of India (don’t remember how many times I am repeating this question think 4th time) . u tell me how the so called Inequalities which was vulgar existed??? There should be some reason …especially a person who have been talking about scientifism…
“For In a land like India where we have a civilization and cultural sensibilities of over 5000 years; it should be the guiding principle.”
- what guiding principle, what civilization ?????
DEAR NIDHIN.
ANGANE AANENKIL
( I AGAIN ASK BECAUSE U ESCAPED QUESTIONS )
1. VED VYASA Was never a BORN BRAHMIN
2. VALMIKI NEVER A BORN BRAHMIN
3. Viswamitra never a born Brahmin
These are not questions , instances , .. WE have a Dalit who have framed our constitution , were Dalits not oppressed??? We have a Dalit now chief justice of India , are Dalits not oppressed ????
By giving such occassinal instances , u can’t change the reality my friend …. The questions below could bring insight into the realities of the history , not the silly questions which u raised… There are many low caste politicians also in our country does it means the economic and social status of low caste people is better ??? These silly questions are actually what is philosophy and this is not scientifism so don’t be hypocrat …
Pinne the questions I asked earlier again see below , athu escape cheythathalenkil (pls don’t try to evade this saying I am the one trying to evade your posts , atleast I am pasting ur questions again and again….) its too bad Rahul being a hyprocrat actually I am wasting my time here..
1. “Your perception that only after having the basic level of bodily need, hunger...Man can think higher things. is not "totally" true.( true to a good extent)
Then tell me to what extent it is true ?”
2. Rahul you told my vision for Indian History is not true. I asked you if that is not true you educate me with the right vision.
I asked you how the so called Caste system based on different occupations and which were basis of exploitaions occurred in India throughout the ages and still occurring through out various parts of India. Are you meaning it is because of different Genes , they have taken up various occupations automatically . Is it because of Genes certain people have become leaders , invaders, ????
Is it because of different Genes Castes occurred ? If so with the same genes , today when provided opportunities how the same low castes are showing improvements ????
Please don’t say such abstract justifications , it seems like codes. Answer how this diversity occurred in India if it were not for the Invasion? How this exploitation system occured???? How only few from the so called low castes still not able to pursue education , is it because fo Genes or is it because of no opportunities????
3. “Genes differ not because of different ENVIRONMENTS. But because they DIFFER, What is the meaning of this ? Atleast with 1 examplethey 'simply' differ.” can u explain this. If not then this is also just philosophy and not scientifism.
Rahul,
Don't waste your time on this!
Please try to understand the real intention of people!!
Don't waste your valuable time here!
Take Care Buddy!!!
Some people will be able to grasp the essence of an article while reading it!
Some people are poor in that and will ask questions again and again.
To some people it is advised to explain it again and again; if the person who answers feels the other has got the ability to grasp it!
For some category of people it is better to drop if the person who answers feels it is of no use!!!
This is a gene variation!!! Not depend on any other things!
Rahul, please don’t waste your time on unnecessary things if you feel so! If we want to neglect some thing we need to neglect it at the correct time. Nothing wrong in that!
The way of strength is to accept a reality as reality and then form our opinion based on that reality. But some people are obsessed to form their opinion impulsively and try to twist and bend and distort all the realities and facts to fit into their illusions. I have never argued Indian culture is something bad or something inferiour. Every child knows how ancient it is and the historical greatness of Indian Civilisation. The cultural and social practices of a people are moulded by material realities of those times. We can not fully understand why certain rituals were practised thousands of years back. We can only study and try to understand the reason behind them. I agree that it is foolishness to blindly believe the superstitions practised by our ancestors thousands of years ago. But there is nothing shameful about that. Every society has progressed from a more uncivilized past to a more civilized present.
But it is shocking to see some people's hesitation to accept the facts as they existed. If the cat close its eyes, is darkness only for it.
The question is that, should we consider announcing 50crore rupees to behead a great genius artist in order to satisfy some people's whims and fancies. It is proved beyond any doubt that originally the M.F. Hussein Controversy was whipped up to win a local body election. Isnt it barbarianism? See the hypocrites don't have time to condemn the barbarian appeal to kill some one. But they knowingly support that barbarian acts by endorsing same arguments. After all pimps wont actually entertain the clients, it is the prostitute' job. But pimp does his job and prostitute does her job. And there is a division of labour.
As it is evident here, and as some one openly claim here "You are not alone.. It is not one person... etc" And from the way these links are circulated to post endorsing comments it is clear that it is a more organized campaign by a group of people. I dont say originally this posting was a result of group effort. It may not be. But see the comments. Almost all comments are same wordings. Almost all endorsing comments starts with the same type of phrase and ends with the same phrase. (even the use of exclamation marks are similar!) When some one pointed out this hypocrisy of circulating through emails asking for endorsing comments, immediately the pattern of comments changed and more descriptive comments started appearing.
But ultimately even for those who endorse, one thing is obvious. They are more interested to throw some comments and hurriedly RUN AWAY. Unfortunately in India even now only 3 to 4% of Indians use internet. And a lot of them use from office environment. Not all have the luxury of participating in internet discussions. But even now these people are struggling to give a reply to a handful number of critics. So imagine if they go to the street and face the question of people with more knowledge…
See the way some people post comments here. Through my window, I can see in the nights some housewives of some middle class houses would come out in the night to the street. They would be nervous if some one is watching them. They come with their garbage bin and dump it on the roadside and nervously escape back to their home and shut the door. (This is to save paying tips to the garbage collectors). Most people, if not all, who post endorsing comments here follow a pattern. They peep in , throw their garbage comments, --- see how nervous they are if they are questioned by some others--- They get panic and run back and shut door. The only one point they want to emphasis is that they dont want to discuss. They only want to support some one.
Pathetic lives indeed!
If some one doesnt want to discuss then why post comments? Obviously they are asked to post comments. May be by friends, may be because they want to show their solidarity with some one who hold their own bankrupted vision.
I acknowledge that every one has his/her own strengths and intelligence. Every one is precious, in a sense they can make a unique contribution to this life. And at the same time, I would humbly request them to have a retrospect to their own actions. I agree you are all intelligent and I respect all of you. But think for a moment--- What is the message you are conveying to others by posting these cheap comments in this forum. What is the impression you are conveying to a third party observer about your intellectual ability? Think of it once. You dont need to convince me. Let us assume there is some one from your office friends or reader from another region who NEED NOT GIVE much emotional importance to this M.F. Hussein controversy.. and they may come to know you personally today or tomorrow. After all you all have some substance and need to work with different professional and friendship circles. Think once. If they ever come to notice your comments here, are they going to gain respect for you or are they going to lose respect about you? Not every one may not tell you bluntly, But people will definitely form a low opinion about others if they see such cheap comments. Think of yourself. What is your impression about some terrorist from some sub-saharan African country announcing to behead some one (what ever may be the reason). And what is your impression about some one supporting such barbarian acts by posting comments online? And think once again. What is that you achieving when post cliché comments like: "I support you, but I dont want to discuss. Dont answer your critics. Vande Mataram!" It appears that they are trying to hide their lack of knowledge and lack of confidence by raising slogans...
Recently at busy hour I saw an accident while driving back home. It was not the driver's fault. A fully drunken man tried to cross the door and a scooter hit him. Initially he tried to put the blame on the scooterist and started shouting against the driver. But as the witnesses had clearly seen he jumping in front of speeding vehicle, everyone started raising voice against the drunkard. After some time the drunkard realized the situation is not good for him. And he resorted to a funny trick. When some one questions him, he would not give a direct reply. But would simply shout: "Jai Hind! Jay Bharatmata" . When he understood that he is in defensive and he cant answer the angry mob, that was his escapist trick.... People asked: "Are you not drunk?" .. Answer: "Jai Hind! Jai Bharat Mata!" People asked: "Are you not again going back to the Liquor Bar on the opposite side of the road?..." Answer: "Jai Hind! Jai Bharat Mata!" People shouted: "See how dares he to held the color of the scooter owner. This guy should be thrashed" Answer: "Jai Hind! Jai Bharat Mata!" After some time, the angry mob assembled felt soooo funny and they didnt hurt him.
But what is the relevance of "Jai Hind! Jai Bharat Mata!" with the accident? That was his escaping trick to distract people's attention from his own faults.
When I read some of the posts here, I am reminded of this funny incident and I cant control laughing thinking of that accident scene and the stupid behaviour of the drunkard.
When discussing the issue of M.F.Hussein's painting, what is the relevence of comments like: "We are with you. Vande Matharam!" ....."I dont want to discuss. Vande Matharam!" ..... "I dont want to answer critics. Ignore them.. Vande Matharam!"......
What type of argument is this? What type of funny people are these!
Yes, people should show enough strength to accept the reality!!!!
As amita told,
Some people will be able to grasp the essence of an article while reading it!
Some people are poor in that and will ask questions again and again.
To some people it is advised to explain it again and again; if the person who answers feels the other has got the ability to grasp it!
For some category of people it is better to drop if the person who answers feels it is of no use!!!
This is a gene variation!!! Not depend on any other things!
Rahul, please don’t waste your time on unnecessary things if you feel so! If we want to neglect some thing we need to neglect it at the correct time. Nothing wrong in that!
Gene matters a lot!!!:)Some people are proving it again and again!!!
Rahul, don't waste your time!!!:)
Vande Mataram!!!
Jai Hind!!!
Rahul, Good going man!!!
We are with you Rahul!! Reminding you it once more!!
Vande Mataram!!!
I am not here for a debate!!!
But, I am agreeing with you Rahul!!!because you are right in my perception!!!
Rahul,
Good going man!
I am with you!!:). Felt to remind this to you once more.
V A N D E M A T A R A M
The following is quoted from a book written by Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar, as widely acknowledged, who was a Scholar of great repute and architect of Indian Constitution.
Hopefully now people will not question that Ambedkar never existed. If some one is going to ask if I have ever seen Ambedkar to believe he lived, I have no answer.
But I understand that there is a section of people who are otherwise intelligent and can use their own brain and logically think and reach their own conclusion.
No one is interested to show India and Indian past in poor light. On the contrary, we understand the plurality of our culture and understand the subjective and objective aspects and by accepting positives we thrive for a futuriistic society. And we dont force our society back to barbarian times.
To the question if Vedic rituals indeed depicted or glorified bestiality can be explored by anyone. Why trust me? The reluctance even to accept the facts shows how people fear to face the reality. Can I change the past? Can I change what is already there in Vedas?
If what I said is right or wrong can be verified by anyone.
But let me give some information to give a hint, why there is some confusion about this.
Ralph T. H. Griffith of Benares University and A. Berriedale Keith of University of Edinburgh who translated the Vedic scriptures into English initially omitted these verses in their translations. Thus many English language translations cant find these original texts.
I hope the article written by none other than Ambedkar will give some hint about the sexual practises of Vedic period. At the end of this article, Ambedkar confirms the bestiality advocated by Vedic scriptures. And please read yourself. The full text of this article by Ambedkar can be read at:
http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/19A.Revolution%20and%20Counter%20Rev.in%20Ancient%20India%20PART%20I.htm
"The Ancient Regime : The State of the Aryan Society
....................
.....................
The sexual immorality of the Aryan Society must shock their present day descendants. The Aryans of pre-Buddhist days had no such rule of prohibited degrees as we have today to govern their sexual or matrimonial relationship.
According to the Aryan Mythology, Brahma is the creator. Brahma had three sons and a daughter. His one son Daksha married his sister. The daughters born of this marriage between brother and sister were married some to Kashyapa the son of Marichi the son of Brahma and some to Dharma the third son of Brahma. [f4]
In the Rig-Veda there is an episode related of Yama and Yami brother and sister. According to this episode Yami the sister invites her brother Yama to cohabit with her and becomes angry when he refuses to do so. [f5]
A father could marry his daughter. Vashishta married his own daughter Shatrupa when she came of age. [f6] Manu married his daughter IIa. [f7] Janhu married his daughter Janhavi. [f8] Surya married his daughter Usha. [f9]
There was polyandry not of the ordinary type. The polyandry prevalent among the Aryans was a polyandry when kinsmen cohabited with one woman. Dhahaprachetani and his son Soma cohabited with Marisha the daughter of Soma. [f10]
Instances of grandfather marrying his granddaughter are not wanting. Daksha gave his daughter in marriage to his father Brahma[f11] and from that marriage was born the famous Narada. Dauhitra gave his 27 daughters to his father Soma for cohabitation and procreation. [f12] The Aryans did not mind cohabiting with women in the open and within sight of people. The Rishis used to perform certain religious rites which were called Vamdevya vrata. These rites used to be performed on the Yadnya bhumi. If any woman came there and expressed a desire for sexual intercourse and asked the sage to satisfy her, the sage used to cohabit with her then and there in the open on the Yadnya bhumi. Instances of this may be mentioned. The case of the sage Parashara had sexual intercourse with Satyavati and also of Dirghatapa. That such a custom was common is shown by the existence of the word Ayoni. The word Ayoni is understood to mean of immaculate conception. That is not however the original meaning of the word. The original meaning of the word Yoni is house. Ayoni means conceived out of the house i.e. in the open. That there was nothing deemed to be wrong in this is clear from the fact that both Sita and Draupadi were Ayonija. That this was very common is clear from the fact that religious injunctions had to be issued against such a practice[f13]
There was prevalent among the Aryans the practice of renting out their women to others for a time. As an illustration may be mentioned the story of Madhavi. [f14] The king Yayati gave his daughter Madhavi as an offering to his Guru Galav. Galav rented out the girl Madhavi to three kings, each a period. Thereafter he gave her in marriage to Vishwamitra. She remained with him until a son was born to her. Thereafter Galav took away the girl and gave her back to her father Yayati.
Besides the practice of letting out women to others temporarily at a rent there was prevalent among the Aryans another practice namely allowing procreation by the best amongst them. Raising a family was treated by them as though it was a breeding or stock raising. Among the Aryas there was a class of persons called Devas who were Aryans but of a superior status and prowess. The Aryans allowed their women to have sexual intercourse with any one of the class of Devas in the interest of good breeding. This practice prevailed so extensively that the Devas came to regard pre libation in respect of the Aryan Women as their prescriptive right. No Aryan woman could be married unless this right of pre-libation had been redeemed and the woman released from the control of the Devas by offering what was technically called Avadan. The Laja Hoame which is performed in every Hindu marriage and the details of which are given in the Ashwalayan Grahya Sutra is a relic of this act of the redemption of the Aryan woman from the right of pre-libation of the Devas. The Avadan in the Laja Hoama is nothing but the price for the extinguishing of the right of the Devas over the bride. The Saptapadi performed in all Hindu marriages and which is regarded as the most essential ceremony without which there is no lawful marriage has an integral connection with this right of pre-libation of the Devas. Saptapadi means walking by the bridegroom seven steps with the bride. Why is this essential? The answer is that the Devas, if they were dissatisfied with the compensation, could claim the woman before the seventh step was taken. After the seventh step was taken, the right of the Devas was extinguished and the bridegroom could take away the bride and live as husband and wife without being obstructed or molested by the Devas.```
There was no rule of chastity for maidens. A girl could have sexual intercourse with and also progeny from anybody without contracting marriage. This is evident from the root meaning of the word Kanya which means a girl. Kanya comes from the root Kam which means a girl free to offer herself to any man. That they did offer themselves to any man and had children without contracting regular marriage is illustrated by the case of Kunti and Matsyagandha. Kunti had children from different men before she was married to Pandu and Matsyagandha had sexual intercourse with the sage Parashara before she married to Shantanu the father of Bhishma.
Bestiality was also prevalent among the Aryans. The story of the sage Dam having sexual intercourse with a female dear, is well known. Another instance is that of Surya cohabiting with a mare. But the most hideous instance is that of the woman having sexual intercourse with the horse in the Ashvamedha Yadna."
--------
Now are we going to announce 50 crores to behead those who written Vedic scriptures? Are we going to announce 50 crore to behead Ambedkar?
i copied it.:)
Yes, people should show enough strength to accept the reality!!!!
As amita told,
Some people will be able to grasp the essence of an article while reading it!
Some people are poor in that and will ask questions again and again.
To some people it is advised to explain it again and again; if the person who answers feels the other has got the ability to grasp it!
For some category of people it is better to drop if the person who answers feels it is of no use!!!
This is a gene variation!!! Not depend on any other things!
Rahul, please don’t waste your time on unnecessary things if you feel so! If we want to neglect some thing we need to neglect it at the correct time. Nothing wrong in that!
Gene matters a lot!!!:)Some people are proving it again and again!!!
Rahul, don't waste your time!!!:)
Rahul,
Just ignore the unnecessary irrelevant comments!
people will take time to raise the intellectual level...
Vante Mataram!!!
Take Care Pal!!!
Rahul,
Just thought to remind you that, I am with you to support you.
V A N D E M A T A R A M
Dear Sreekanth, Santosh, Sindu, Bangaru, Vasudha.
It is true some people are adamant and only sticks to their perception even if it's wrong. But still it is our duty to convey and communicate and leave it to their conviction.
The great Baba Saheb Ambedkar, is not a historian and sadly his interpretations have a 'bias' as can be observed by any impartial reader. He had to do it in his time for some 'socio-political' reasons.
THE VERSES quotes are consciously distorted, deviated and can be verified by any good text. Please refere, Shankara's Bhashya's or even Max mueller's version and some references in one of the last work 6 systems of Indian philosophy,
Dont fall for political propaganda version of history.
I understand these critics mind, their thinking was misguided by the clever and cunning British History. They will realise their 'biased' perceptions in future.
Vande Mataram
All comments using vulgar language, will be deleted. The comments using vulgar and obscene language either against Hussain or author or any person who commented will be removed.
Please convey your ideas in a more decent, dignified and modest manner.
All comments are welcome
The question here is not if Baba Saheb is Historian or not.
Ambedkar in his write up has supported all his quotes with references. There is not a single claim made in the write up with out references.
For those who do not understand what is "supported by references" let me explain :
Supported by references means, when some one writes an article, others can not confirm if he/she is actually quoting from real sources or not. Thus the author gives a foot note saying from where exactly he/she is quoting. So that this can be verified by anyone.
Ambekar in this context has given, from which book he is quoting. If it is Ramayana, Mahabharata, Yajur Veda etc, he has mentioned it. (See the original write up, the web link for which is provided). You may not agree with his interpretation about what Ambedkar has quoted. That is different issue. But how can some one even deny WHAT Ambekar has quoted? Ambekar is not some guy who is trying for cheap publicity. If a person like Ambekar has given wrong sources in his books, things would have been already a controversy.
And this said book is published by Government of Maharashtra. All types of parties came to power in Maharashtra after Ambedkar passed away, including Congress, BJP, Shivsena etc.
By arguing Ambekar is biased, this guy is now alleging that Ambekar is lying . When the question is simply if what Ambekar is saying truth or untruth, when some one says Ambedkar is "biased" that has only one meaning that Ambedkar is lying. But the Maharastra Govts led by various political parties (which published the above book) which came to power after the demise of Ambekar, never thought Ambekar was lying. Ambekar has clearly mentioned that Hindu Scriptures has mentioned bestiality (that is having sex with animals). Till this date no one heard any political party or any govt contradicting with Ambedkar.
I have quoted Ambedkar only to prove that what I have claimed about Yajur Veda mentioning bestiality is also endorsed by Ambekar (and various other personalities in the past and there is nothing new about it. It is a known fact for all knowledged people). No one is expected to either agree or disagree with Ambedkar's political view. I have not mentioned anything to endorse or contradict Ambekar. I have mentioned Ambekar's book to draw the attention to a single fact-- That even famous books published by Govt of Maharashtra, which is originally written by people like Ambekar has clearly indicated that Vedic Scriputres have mentioning about bestiality. I understand most guys who read this forum and endorse may not have read Yajur Veda. So the best poof is to provide a link which can be verified. The fact is, this Ambekar book confirms this claim about bestiality mentioned in Hindu Scriputres. After all how can some one say about Yajur Veda? It is not a secret book. This book is translated into various languages of the world. Starting with Shah Jahan's son who first translated Vedas. It is known to all educated people that there are mentioning about bestiality in Yajur Veda. And every one knows that as part of Ashwa medha Yaga, the queens has to have sexual intercourse with dead Horse. This is not a secret. This is widely known.
I understand the possibility of some illiterate guys denying Yajur Veda cease to exist? Will that vanish into vacuum?
Now, if some one has to argue that Vedic Scripures do not depict and advocate bestiality, then they have challenge Ambedkar's book. Those who argues that there is not mentioning about Bestiality in Vedic scriptures are requested to challenge Ambekar's book by holding a press Conference. Tell the world that What is mentioned in Ambedkar's book is wrong. That is more easier than assassinating a noted artist.
It is ridiculous, it is intellectual bankruptcy...
None of the scholars in India or abroad, no political parties including those who allege MF Hussein is hurting sentiments and he should be beheaded, thought Ambedkar was lying. Some people may not have agreed with Ambedkar's political views. But that is an altogether different issue. Have we ever heard Bal Thakkeray or Advani or any other fanatic protesting against Ambedkar arguing that Ambedkar has said a lie in his book saying Hindu Scriptures mention about bestiality?
No one has contradicted with Ambekar because it is a fact.
And this guy is now suggesting that Ambekar is lying!!!!
The question is simple. Does Yajur Veda actually advocating and depicting bestiality?
NOT A SINGLE GUY TILL THIS DATE, QUESTIONED THAT YAJUR VEDA WAS WRITTEN BY BIASED GUYS TO SHOW HINDUISM IN POOR LIGHT. Not a single guy has argued that VEDIC SCRIPTURES DO NOT HAVE DEPICTIONS ABOUT BESTIALITY with any proof.
This is ridiculous. This is pathetic.
IT IS A WELL KNOWN ACCEPTED TRUTH THAT bestiality is mentioned in Yajur Veda. I can understand some one giving a different interpretation to that. But some one denying the very fact is UNIMAGINABLE. This shows how pathetic these guys. How hollow their arguments are! Those who send one line- two line endorses have NOTHING TO SAY ON THIS. IT IS A SHAME THESE GUYS ARE WALKING WITH THEIR TWO LEGS ON THIS EARTH.
NOT A SINGLE SOUL WOULD ACTUALLY DENY THIS FACT. NOT EVEN THE MOST FANATIC WOULD CLAIM YAJUR VEDA DOES NOT HAVE MENTIONING OF BESTIALITY. Shame! Shame! Shame! This is the knowledge of those who are going to behead M.F. Hussein..
If there are illiterate guys in this country, M.F. Hussein has nothing to do with that. Why blame M.F. Hussein? If some one can not even accept the fact it is pity!
Now we understand why these guys want to behead M.F. Hussein. It talks volumes about what is inside their skull. It is like, a man who doesnt have nose being jealous about those who are with nose. And want to chop other's nose. If some one doesnt have knowledge murdering all other people with some knowledge is not the solution. Please go and start attending some literacy classes.
The Elephant & the Blind Men...
----"When the blind men had felt the elephant, the raja went to each of them and said to each, 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?'
The first approached the elephant, and, happening to fall, against his broad and sturdy side, at once began to bawl: "God bless me! but the elephant, is nothing but a wall!"
The second feeling of the tusk, cried: "Ho! what have we here, so very round and smooth and sharp? To me tis mighty clear, this wonder of an elephant, is very like a spear!"
The third approached the animal, and, happening to take, the squirming trunk within his hands, "I see," quoth he, the elephant is very like a snake!"
The fourth reached out his eager hand, and felt about the knee: "What most this wondrous beast is like, is mighty plain," quoth he; "Tis clear enough the elephant is very like a tree."
The fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said; "E'en the blindest man can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can, This marvel of an elephant, is very like a fan!"
The sixth no sooner had begun, about the beast to grope, than, seizing on the swinging tail, that fell within his scope, "I see," quothe he, "the elephant is very like a rope!"
"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.
"Brethren, the raja was delighted with the scene.
"Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus."
--Courtesy: Fable--
Rahul,
People will take time to see and accept the reality!!!
Rahul,
Ignore the young generations vent for sadisms...;)
Meow... Meow...!!!;))))
vande mataram!!!
Jai Hind!!!
POOCHA..
What can you say about a man who doesnt even have the GUTS to say his name and call himself "poocha"
and his comments TOO IRRELEVANT TO BE even addressed.
and NIRMAL..of course he is EXAGGERATING by saying I said
"Ambedkar is lying" ? DID I ever say that. Dont be intellectualy dishonest. And you definitely need a good reply because you are studying and commenting not like some "poocha"
Nirmal...
1st point.
Dont go for overstatements like "I said Ambedkar is lying". I only said those are "not right interpretations"
2nd point about Sanatana Dharma or "Hinduism"
Sanatana Dharma might have been a more proper word as there was and is no exact "hinduism" in historic and religious sense. Yet I use it for that is the popular perception.
The religious books are written in a SYMBOLIC LANGUAGE, not to be taken LITERALLY. They are classified as "POETIC History" or "informal history", "Devotional tale-telling" etc. They history is mixed with poetic and linguistic expressions.
for eg: In Sabarimala, Ayyappa is said to be the son of Vishnu and Siva. (two men)
I am sure 25 years down the line, Some so-called modernists will argue, Hinduism was a liberal religion...even gods are HOMO-SEXUAL.. And there will be some people like Sasi Tharoor who will go on saying "see this is the greatness of hinduism and India, even our gods are "modern and liberal""
And some foolish Hindus will again hear this and say "See...we already know our religion was very flexible, modern and secular than islam and christianity, that is the greatness of hinduism."
The historic and linguistic reality is that the word "AYYAPPA" comes from roots AYYA (vishnu) and APPA (shiva). There were 2 conflicting theologies, ideas of that time Vaishnavism and Saivism. A person named Manikanta (probable year CE 1000-1150 )combined these two theologies and said both are essentialy the same. So he got a name called "AYYA APPA", and he was symbolically called the SON OF SHIVA AND VISHNU.
Ofcourse as time passed all the myths and devotional stories clouded the "real history" behind this human warrior called Manikanta of Pandyan dynasty who had a Muslim friend called Babar (Vavar) who was a merchant.
The saddest part, the worst part of Indian civilization is that they are UNHISTORICAL. This was rightly pointed out by all prominent historians like R.C.Majumdar, Romila Thapar.
Indian the reason why I reply to Nirmal is that, even I was a "left-liberal" in my college days. Some sections conciously propogate these "biased history" to create a split in people and people are misguided to it. I still remember, during my college days, I heard a lot of their lectures and thought that was the real history until I met some of the researching Indologists who didnt have a bias and had a scientific attitude. They rightly pointed out that the theories of Max Mueller and So where ONLY BASED ON LINGUISTIC REFERENCES and Now a much more true re-construction of history is possible by Genetic, Archaeologic findings.
People like Nirmal, Chitrakaran has a historic Anger injected in to them by western and Marxist Historians who used HISTORY AS A POLITICAL WEAPON. They cleverly used CASTE ANGER, Painted History Bad by Exaggerating certain things.
thank you for your support, Indian and Sood, it is the impartial people's responsibility to de-politicise history and make youngsters aware of both versions.
Nirmal Said
"And every one knows that as part of Ashwa medha Yaga, the queens has to have sexual intercourse with dead Horse. This is not a secret. This is widely known"
I cant help but comment on the above reference. See these are INTERPRETATIONS BY Charvaka or Lokayata philosophy whose main aim was to ridicule and belittle rituals."
For Eg: Please Check
http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2007/02/01/aishwarya_rai_hit_with_lawsuit_for_marry
http://www.realbollywood.com/news/2007/02/pil-against-aishwaryas-marriage-with-tree.html
Aiswarya Rai getting married to a tree. I am sure 50 years down the line, People can use it as
"Hinduism permitted Tree Sex also"
Dear Nirmal...History Should be impartial, secular, non-political and a search for reconstruction in an objective manner.
Rahul,
Good going buddy!!
You are able to keep the people alive!!!
V A N D E M A T A R A M!!!
Rahul,
You are welcome.:)
vande mataram!!!
Jai Hind!!!
daa nanam illathavanee!
Well, this issue has attained quite a lot of gravity with respect to religious seclusivity.
Let me be very frank here.[My Perspective ONLY..!]
I would also suggest you to take a couple of minutes and read through this again and again, as I have gone through mixed emotions within the few moments, while reading most comments on this blog. Out of a clear emotion free mind I pen down.
I have seen the anti and pro comments off MF Hussain. Although I vehemently object the same as Rahul Eashwar, following are some snippets i could gather from my memory:
(for the fact - I respect every religion, human, animal and even a mechanical product for what he/she/it is. Hence, I write with a deep scar, within, from fellow humans)
Contemplate the following:
Going through some persons virile comments which start from Gods. (Since when has the act of making love become an act of beastiality even within gods - irrespective of PORN)
Discovering that a true christian should not be a friend with hindus as the bible says so (See Rajan's comment on - 21 Aug 2007) - If Christianity and the bible did say what you say, No one would call Jesus a saviour. If you still do...please re read the bible with a clear serene mind.... You have sparked something that is extremely critical - subjective the reader does not read the full blog page.
Imagining each others feminine counterparts naked - We all have desires. They change from person to person wrt the situation/environment. We live in an era where sexuality is no more an act of passion rather (for most) an excercise, physical pleasure or the test of lustrous desires which are to be held within. But still, commenting as such, I take humans cheaper than any earthly being.
Abusing in extreme irrespective manner. Why the hatred against fellow men? I see the birth of Jesus, Krishna, Nabi and lord Buddha have not changed us!
Degrading the human society be it man, woman or child. Vultures seem decent to me at this precise instance.
Overall, after a lot of thought, I come up with one burning question tree.
Has civilisation brought us to this extent? Is this why science was not let to grow in the olden days? Has science buried the most superior power - Godliness? Are we going through the same circle of life where we shall kill ourselves and mushroom from scratch?
I see 716 comments of burns, jealousy, opportunistic debates, stupidity, hatred and pervercy.
Overall, I see an opening for separatism within fellow humans based on this famed M.F. Hussain bringing down a cultural society spread around the globe, by pulling, where it hurts the most, as this specific society and beliefs run a timeline of 500 decades or maybe even more.
Eashwar - I feel your pain. I see things that happen around and sense the level of senselessness involving authority, prejudice, political motivation and greed.
This blog is indeed an eye opener. The humble question to you is, do you see this going elsewhere?
I have a clear mind yet poised to anticipate what ever deciphers from here. Indeed mind boggling..as I pity the human race right now. No remorse for it I should presume..!
hope someone does something to not aggravate such matters further..!
God Save The Human Race.
[Sharks lived a million years, the way we go, guess we wont even a few thousands]
teernilledaa paribavam????
enthayaalum hissainte work work thanne aayi nilkkum! kooduthal kooduthal publicity koduthu athine oru valya sambavamaakki athu auction housukal valya vilakku vilkatte!
I read what someone called "nidhin" had to say,and i have to agree..my two cents worth...sensationalist nationalism of this sort..does'nt actually help anyone...art is free of the constraints of moral and social codes erected by society...art is the latent form of expression where less acceptable ideas are presented and debated...the fact that this man(m.f hussein) has the intellect and strenght of character to challenge pre-existing pseudo-morality in the general indian public is an act that should infact be applauded. Since when did it become unacceptable to present human forms in the naturlist state? Deities and the pillars of our culture...perhaps yes,but true democracy is the willingness to interpret it nay way one likes..
If we were the sort of country so high-strung and sensitive about our culture...why in the world do we turn a blind eye to rape,killing over dowry,eve-teasing and other social horrors which i think take forefront. Please,get yourself something productive to do...
there are greater things in the world to protest and die for than take a stand against an artist's work...Perhpas we could think of the millions in poverty and facing hunger in India and find cultural ways to resolve that than laude yourselves with being morally upright citizens...This one artist is not the international representative of Indian culture..that lies with every indian and our country as a whole...nobody cares about our gloroius past and our untainted hero/idol worhip..in the relevant world today are we doing our best at excellign in the international arena..?
Criticism is a good thing...only when it benefits individuals. Winning an ethical case against presumed "mock" will not feed people or create development...
We ARE a proud nation...except we're proud for the wrong reasons..stop trying to look for meanings where there are none...focus on individual and collective ways of improving society,not defending a past that does'nt give you more than comfort,or creating rifts.
'nuff said.
pls do not post any thing in this blog! rahul is nut! he is the ultimate proof of conservativism and he is so closed minded!
ivanullathu roogathuramaaya oru manassaanu! ivanu onnum kanaan aavilla!
@Eswar..
poochakku ponnurukkunidath enthu karyam??? :)
please remove this moron called 'poocha'.
The comments by Dipika are sensible and mature enough to reply. and Dear James, I didnt delete Mr.'Poocha's comment for it is his freedom of expression with in 'limits'.
Then coming to the comments of Dipika.
She said "art is free of the constraints of moral and social codes erected by society"
...the fact that this man(m.f hussein) has the intellect and strenght of character to challenge pre-existing pseudo-morality in the general indian public is an act that should infact be applauded."
Since when did it become unacceptable to present human forms in the naturlist state?
This argument of MORAL RELATIVISM is the greatest danger of the 21st century. The pseudo-scientific Freudian argument of 'Natural Sexuality and Societal Morality' has really done damage to ethics in the 20th century. Lets check
the argument up close.
Nowadays every one says this argument, But is it true. Will any one apply the so-called ARGUMENT to his own family members is a very important question here.
Dipika, will M.F.Hussain applaud the fact when his daughter will be presented in Naturalist state?
DO you seriously believe M.F.Hussain will be happy if his mother (forgive for using the argument) is painted in a compromising position with another man? Obviously Mr.Hussain will protest.
Now one may counter argue that Hussain's mother is a physical reality and Bharat Matha is a psychological image.
But please do consider why do people who equates Bharat Ma with a 'real' woman...it is to consciously hurt the other person FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LOVES THEIR NATION, CONSIDERS THE MOTHER LAND as emotionally dear as a real mother. Why cant you see the spontaneous and innocent anger arising out of the love for their mother land?
II. No freedom is absolute, no liberty is paramount. Can a person burn the flag of India in India, in the name of freedom of expression.
Can a person run naked into the crowd and camera when a cricket match is taking place (as happend in Ind vs Aus)
Saying love is great, can a person 'make love' on the road openly ?
Saying that "I own a car, I will drive it in any way I like and cause accidents
REMEMBER THE ETERNAL and GOLDEN TRUTH
The CAR might be yours, but the ROAD isn't.
Every right is bound by Duty - Indian constitution
Liberty shall not be without responsibility and dignity is a principle accepted in all natons.
Pushan is the lover of his sister [ RIg Ved 6:55:4 ]
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv06055.htm
Agni is the lover of his own sister [Rig ved 10:3:3]
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10003.htm
Bestiality was also prevalent among the Aryans. The story of the sage Dam having sexual intercourse with a female dear, is well known. Another instance is that of Surya cohabiting with a mare. But the most hideous instance is that of the woman having sexual intercourse with the horse in the Ashvamedha Yadna.
http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/19A.Revolution%20and%20Counter%20Rev.in%20Ancient%20India%20PART%20I.htm
Cow is licking Shiva linga in Ekambaresvara temple, Kanchipuram. LM36.
http://www.cbmphoto.co.uk/TSgod.html
Why this kind of animal sex is allowed in Hindu temple? Is not cow sacred? Why cow need to lick linga in temple?
Erotic sculptures can be found on the hindu temples of (i) Khajuraho, Madhyapradesh
(ii) Puri, Konark temple in Orissa (iii) Limbojimata temple at Delmel at Mehsana (iv) Nilakantha temple at Sunak near Baroda (V) kamat temple, Karnataka (vi) Ajanta-Ellora cave
(vii) Elephanta cave in Mumbai etc.
Dear Arnab,
1) I know you have only created ur profile to post ur comments insulting INDIAN CULTURE.
2)This arguments were countered effectively earlier itself. These are misconeptions. To be more specific 'linguistic misconceptions exaggerated by mis interpretations of symbolic languages'. These kinds of mistakes when interpreting happend in every culture and religion.
for eg: some people ask, if there was only Adam and eve at first, they had 2 male children. Then how did more population came from them.? How did they procreate?
These are misunderstanding caused by misreading and wrong assumption that ancient cultures in world civilization were word by word history, there are "informal history" or Poetic History.
3) But Arnab, I understand that you have some anger or misunderstanding in your mind. But be impartial in opinion formation. If you want to check how 'language can deceive communication', see 25 opinions earlier, you can find "Aiswarya Rai making love to a tree"
4) Dear Arnab, Any one is free to form their opinion, but not to take liberties with facts. Think not bias but with clarity.
Vande Mataram
Dear Rahul, nudity was inseparable part of ancient India. From the article of Ambedkar, we can say unambiguously that bestiality and incest were prevalent among ancient aryan sages(upper caste rich people) but may not be prevalent among ordinary poor people. These sages and kings not only committed that crime in large scale but also propagated these as erotic sculptures on several temples and art and literature in Kamasutra etc. Khajuraho is one of the such temples. Sex was common and free at that time. Indian become more conservative after the arrival of Jainism, Buddhism, Mughal and British. Aryans were open minded and they believed in open sex relation and they practiced it. From the article of Ambedkar
"There was no rule of chastity for maidens. A girl could have sexual intercourse with and also progeny from anybody without contracting marriage. This is evident from the root meaning of the word Kanya which means a girl. Kanya comes from the root Kam which means a girl free to offer herself to any man. That they did offer themselves to any man and had children without contracting regular marriage is illustrated by the case of Kunti and Matsyagandha. Kunti had children from different men before she was married to Pandu and Matsyagandha had sexual intercourse with the sage Parashara before she married to Shantanu the father of Bhishma."
Now, please do not tell me Khajuraho promoted sexual education to the ancient people of India. Tell me, what kind of sexual education is this http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/NorthIndia/Khajuraho/LakshmanTemple04.jpg
depicted on Lakshman Temple of Khajuraho. There are too few sexual practices which can not be performed without the help of other people and those are depicted on Khajuraho temple.
Just go to this site to witness the bravery of ancient Indian http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/temples/
From the article of Ambedkar,
"The Rishis used to perform certain religious rites which were called Vamdevya vrata. These rites used to be performed on the Yadnya bhumi. If any woman came there and expressed a desire for sexual intercourse and asked the sage to satisfy her, the sage used to cohabit with her then and there in the open on the Yadnya bhumi."
Dear Arnab,
First of all the great Baba Saheb Ambedkar was not a historian. He was one of our great founding fathers BUT had a particular AGENDA when he was writing all these. You may know, or you can just refer internet to know the political agenda he has for social upliftment of a certain section.
1) The matter you reproduced here were partial, 'selective interpretaton' and has confiramtion bias.
2) P L E A S E DO READ THE FOLLOWING....VERY IMPORTANT...
I debated the same topic with Barkha Dutt of NDTV. She even raises the same argument " IN THE PAST, See what all Happend"
SO WHAT ??? SO What ???
brother, think abt this seriously)
In the past a women called Draupati married 5 people. Do we want our sisters to marry people ?
In the past some allege that some so-called lower class people offer their wives to their superiors the first night ? Do we want such things to happen today ?
Earlier there was Devdasi system, nagaravadhu system, common prostitute system...Should we appreciate them for their openess and 'dedication to their profession and in 21st century, the legalisation of prostitution.'
In some parts of India Sati was forcefully performed. Can we continue that ?
The great Mahavira walked naked and we call him great, does that mean a teenager can go to college in the 'low-waist' jeans that is lower than the 'low' level. Is that teenager a prophet ?
One so-called Swamy argued with me saying (without realising that it is symbolic) 'in Bhagavata there is a scene where Sri Krishna took clothes of girls and 'enjoyed' watching them'.
If I was there at that time, Krishna WOULD HAVE GOT HARD SLAPS from me. Can you justify PORNOGRAPHY AND CHILD SEXUAL TRAFICKING by saying "SEE even the God, Sri Krishna was like such a dude, cool man!!! come on it is their in our culture".
No, it is not the problem of Bhagvan Krishna who sang one of them most beautiful philosophies of all time, RATHER it is the problem of some Artisits, and Poets who interpreted that way.
And the world is facing a great danger, a danger of " Perverted Sexual trap", a market where sexuality is Sold and purchased.
We live in a world that is sexually charged, the whole air, atmosphere, media, litreature, books, talks is injected with Sexual thoughts. When an innocent boy or girl of 7 or 8 years grows all he sees is Sex.
If you want to sell 'Bhakti' you have Devi's who wear clothes less than mallika sherawat, their divine dances give a run to rakhi sawant. If you want to sell cricket, they have cheerleaders who outer wears are competing to hide their inners.
If you want to buy brush, paste, chocolate, bike, car or anything...it should be promoted by a bikini babe.
When Sania's father proudly says "what is wrong in my daughter wearing 'may be tight but she likes' and 'modern' dress, when mothers' proudly tell their daughter, beauty queens, 'hey babe you rock in this swim suit', when brothers show their friends with happiness and tell about their sisters 'hey she looks sexy and hot..'
.We are definitely heading for trouble...
You said, "One so-called Swamy argued with me saying (without realising that it is symbolic) 'in Bhagavata there is a scene where Sri Krishna took clothes of girls and 'enjoyed' watching them'."
Reply
Yes Krishna sexually satisfied Kubja and 16000+ gopis. Being married with Rukmani, Krishna did his illegal premleela with married wife Radha. Indra enjoys with apsaras in heaven. If God can do it, what is the problem with ordinary human being? Brahma and other gods did it too. We do not have any right to degrade the culture which was followed by our gods. Laxmi, Ganga and Saraswati used to quarrel with each other, that is why Vishnu swapped his wife Ganga with Shiva and Saraswati with Brahma. According to Brahma Vaivarta Purana 2.6.13-95 Vishnu has three wives, who constantly quarrel with each other, so that eventually, he keeps only Lakshmi, giving Ganga to Shiva and Saraswati to Brahma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saraswati#Origins_and_context_in_Hinduism
You said,"In the past a women called Draupati married 5 people. Do we want our sisters to marry people?"
Reply
Nowadays it is also true. There are many women who do not keep 5 husbands together due to Indian law, but they enjoy illegal sexual affair. There are huge numbers of evidence of such thing. How will you protest against those people?
You said, "Earlier there was Devdasi system, nagaravadhu system, common prostitute system...Should we appreciate them for their openess and 'dedication to their profession and in 21st century, the legalisation of prostitution."
Reply
These devadasi systems etc are till practiced in this era. I am giving such an example from West Bengal. You must have heard of Tarapith temple of Shri Ramakrishna(commonly known as Bamakhyapa) which is situated in West Bengal http://www.makalipuja.com/tarapith.html. There are many brothels near this temple which are run illegally. Many of the devotees who used to visit Tarapith temple, spent their time in drinking and prostitution after their visit. Undoubtedly, there are many other such temples in India. You must have heard about nude naga swamy. Will you take any action against those devotees?
You said,"When Sania's father proudly says "what is wrong in my daughter wearing 'may be tight but she likes' and 'modern' dress, when mothers' proudly tell their daughter, beauty queens, 'hey babe you rock in this swim suit', when brothers show their friends with happiness and tell about their sisters 'hey she looks sexy and hot..'
.We are definitely heading for trouble..."
Reply
What will you do when someone wants to wear according to their choices? It is upto them. If you have to take action, then there are many of such events which occurs day and night. There are million of porn and adult sites. Do anybody has guts to ban all of those? Thousand of adult movies get released in every year. And people used to watch them. Now how will take action against those audiences? Nudity was there, now is there and will be there in future. Nobody can take any strict action against them because they are inherent in nature.
Arnab, 3 very important points.
1) Your Argument, which is Freudian, Osho's in nature, that sexuality is natural, inherent, inborn, innate. is an argument that is 100 years old. The thought that "Sexuality is natural and morality is societal" that Sexuality is by nature and morality is by nurture is PSEUDO-SCIENTIFIC and not FALSIFIABLE (check internet for the meaning of Falsifiable)
2) If you check impartially the ethical, and values of family, of father, mother, sister, brother are generally better in Islamic countries. They value their realtions more, THEY HAVE BANNED almost all PORNOGRAPHIC sites and has a good, strong code of conduct which inturn will be helpful to the mothers and sister of their nation
3)YOU asked "What will you do when someone wants to wear according to their choices? It is upto them."
this ideas of MORAL RELATIVISM, EXTREME Subjectivism is False, Destructive and dangerous. for eg: One women is saying "I want to enter the temple in nude, why cant I, the gods and goddess are nude there. so why cant I ? ( this may sound a good argument)
what will we say? So for a healthy society, healthy family, liberty with responsibility, rights with duties, freedom with social commitment is needed, dont you think so?
Good Going Rahul!!!
Jai Hind!
I think M.F. Hussain's works are very depictive in the utmost pure form, if you are a Pervert you will view them in that form. The human form is pure in itself, to depict a godly state in that way is fine. Do remember that culturally we are the writers of the Kama Sutra AND we house and respect monuments such as Khajurao. Sex is a PURE act of procreation, it is only today's media who have perversified it and fed your minds with rubbish.
Answer these questions to yourself, Can you have love without sex? Why is the act called "MAKING LOVE" ?
Mr. Hussain only expressed his honest visions of the epics. Let him be and don't judge art cause the media asks you to.
I love my country, its culture and its artists. I believe what M.F. Hussain did is fine absolutely allright.
Peace and love.
Our dear brother said "I think M.F. Hussain's works are very depictive in the utmost pure form, if you are a Pervert you will view them in that form"
Is that the reason 3 high courts saw 'perversion in them'. If some one paints Mr.Hussains mother in those forms, will he See purity?
He said " Do remember that culturally we are the writers of the Kama Sutra AND we house and respect monuments such as Khajurao."
SO, If so some scientifically studies SEX and wrote KAMASUTRA, does that mean he is into PORNOGRAPHY. DEAR BROTHER, Have you ever READ KAMASUTRA. It is a totally GOOD STUDY MATERIAL. IT is about the biology and psychology of sex, a study of sex like Masters and Johnson.
He continues "Answer these questions to yourself, Can you have love without sex? Why is the act called "MAKING LOVE" ? "
If you cannot have love without sex, then what will a wife have to a husband who is paralysed ????
If you cannot have love without sex, what will a husband have to a wife who is on death bed with cancer ??
Sex is only one of the expressions of love.
Our brother continues "Mr.Hussain only expressed his honest visions of the epics."
What is honest, Sita as sexmaniac, Sita devi as having sexual feelings to Hanuman, Bharat Matha as vulgar and naked. Parvathy engaging in sex with a bull???
Brother, Think again, these kind of publicity seekers will sell anything for their own sake, sex, culture, nation...Art should be have social responsibility..
Jai Hind
Dear friends and intellectuals,
It is unfortunate to say that none among you could find a specific track for your argumentations. This is a land of spirituality. The spirituality made with the efforts of generations and generations. We taught the world HOW TO LIVE? HOW TO BEHAVE ETC…? Most of the comments lack intellectual base (HOPE THAT HERE WE NEED SUCH THINGS). Reflecting ideas are just emotions. Remember my friends FACT IS ALWAYS FACTS. Dear friends, kindly go through KAMASUTHRA. It is not at all a text for sex (In short). Just only one among the volumes comprise of SEXUAL INTERCOURSE.
Regards
Gabriel Michael Moche
Great work Rahul
dude....
we r wid u...
go ahead man...
going 4 a protest..
v all r wid u..
just a scrap ahead..
v r the youth of the nation...
rahul,
i hav gone thru ur blog. its really shocking as well as disappointing. i hav read the same n some magazines also. if he(hussain) is gonna portrait all n the same fashion i agree him. bt thts not the case. if u hav noted, he had painted some beautiful pictures of mother teresa, well dressed n equally ethical. wil he draw his mom's picture like that n a nude way ? bharath matha is the mother of all indians. he s misusing his skills to target the emotions of almost a mute religion like hindus
anyway hats off 2 ur work
keep n tuch man
we can hav similar discussions n future as well
'''Is that the reason 3 high courts saw 'perversion in them'.
WHAT ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT VERDICT MR. POTTAN RAHUL????????
Dear Mr. Dignified Poocha. What ever we call others, says a lot about our standard and dignity ? So it is ok for you to call me anything.
BUT THIS IS THE FALSE AND LIE They Propagate.
1. The opinion is not by Supreme Court, it is by only one single Judge of Delhi High Court called Sanjay Kaul.
2. Only 3 cases out of 7 was referred in this particular context
3. " 4 " Cases are pending against him
Dont propagate lies to defend ur points. That is unethical, that is not the right way in an intellectual and ideological fight Mr.Poocha.
It was unfortunate and I am sure the Higher Judiciary will take action for 'liberty with responsibility'
Please visit my blog:
www.justarrived.blogspot.com
Read 'Judgement with Health warning' & 'Ready Rationalism'
navin
Visit my blog on same subject:
www.justarrived.blogspot.com
let me have your comments.
navin
JUDGEMENT WITH HEALTH WARNING
Let me attach a qualification to my comments: I am not for or anti any group - religious, social or political. I have my own views that I express as best as I can whilst restricting myself to a self controlled parameter so as not to hurt any one's sentiment or religious feeling. I believe there is no such thing as absolute 'Freedom' of anything in a civil society.
Now…
As expected the Delhi High Court squashed the 'obscenity' charge against Mr M F Hussain. And as I expected the Judge - in this case Sanjay Kishan Kaul - uttered some demeaning 'elitist' phrases in the report, and I was proved right. His comments were elitists, arrogant, biased, oversimplified and insulting. Following is my postmortem of the press reporting of the case.
In the 74 page report the 'all knowing' Justice Sanjay Kishan Kaul declared that all those whose sentiments were hurt and all those who protested democratically - in fact thousands signed petitions - were all 'New puritans' and 'ignorant people'. Well Justice Kaul overlooked the fact that the protesters included intellectuals, historians of repute, fellow artists, journalists and writers of eminence and not just 'ignorant' puritans as he described them. I find Justice Kaul's observations off mark, arrogant, quite incorrect and too simplistic. I blame his arrogance on his elitist roots and I am always of the opinion that Indian elites have done more harm to the Indian nation than the hard core fundamentalists. I find him deliberate ill informed and very opinionated.
To begin with let me say this that all these 'ignorant people' would have seen these well publicised paintings and had well within their reach the tools - i.e. two eyes and interpreting sane brain - to grasp and offer informed opinions whether nude Sita, Gunga-Yamuna and Bharatmata could be described obscene and if uncalled for. I am sure even a 10 years old village boy would feel offended and ashamed to offer an opinion. On the other hand I am not all too certain that these 'ignorant people' would have understood the 'elitist' lingua and the conclusion of Justice Kaul's judgement. But then who cares.
Justice Kaul declared that, "A painter has his own perspective of looking at things and it cannot be the basis of initiating criminal proceedings against him." How more wrong can Justice Kaul get? Though, I must agree that artist have own perspective of looking at things but that does not necessarily give them the absolute freedom to express freely their perspective if the expression of their perspective could or would hurt people's sentiment or even may be construed as an attack on others beliefs. I am absolutely certain that no one has such god given freedom. Humanity has never accepted 'absolute freedom' in any form ever. Justice Kaul can only kid himself. My creative mind has just conjured up a dozen of 'perspectives' of what Justice Kaul would be doing in his office - alone or otherwise - and I promise that the painted images of my 'perspectives' of Justice Kaul would be totally unacceptable even though it would only represent my own 'perspective'. He would be first to object and protest. There is no such thing as 'absolute freedom of expression' for any one ...I mean anyone and, Mr M F Hussain is also just another 'anyone'.
Justice Sanjay Kaul further showed his concern. "In India, new puritanism is being carried out in the name of cultural purity and a host of ignorant people are vandalizing art and pushing us towards a pre-renaissance era." I am anti-vandalizing of things - anything. I am 100% for non-violence. But I do understand the frustration of helpless protesters. If Justice Kaul will throw a boomerang of 'ignorance' at protesters I am sure that boomerang will return to him in form of frustration and vandalising - the only tool at hand for the 'ignorant' people. The use of term 'cultural purity' is misplaced and more of a red herring than meaningful. I am sure that every society, community and nationality feel their culture is superior and purer of the purest than others. Isn't this also a 'perspective' that 'should never be challenged'? And Justice Kaul's another concern of 'pushing us towards a pre-renaissance era' first frightened me and then confused me - is India part of 'renaissance' Europe? What 'renaissance' Justice Kaul is taking about and for whose consumption? The elitist has always over exaggerate issues and compared Indian situation with that of Europe and got away with. And I see this as just another issue over exaggerated and not given any serious thought and, as always blame ended up in the lap of 'cultural puritanism'.
And finally his blind and frightening Carte Blanch observation, "the question of obscenity was nowhere to be seen in his paintings, as it was his perspective of looking at things and one should not challenge that." This nearly made me burst into laughter. Was Justice Kaul a blind Judge who judged Mr Hussain's paintings through Braille. If naked portrayal of Bharatmata, Gunga-Yumuna and naked Sita clinging to Hanuman's tail is not obscene than what is? Not only these three paintings but a huge range of nudes are painted by Mr Hussain and can easily be searched on the internet. Judge for yourself.
Being an artist I rejoiced at the declaration that artist's work 'should not be challenged'. But does that mean an artist had an unquestionable freedom to paint and draw anything and everything? Have an absolute Freedom of Expression? Could I now freely depict and paint Babri Mosque Domes as breasts and show Hindu extremists raping the mosque? Seriously could I really do that? I personally don't think so. I, being an artist, am bound by self controlled Freedom of Expression with total respect for others. I can only say with sense of disgust - SHAME ON YOU JUSTICE KAUL YOU HAVE MISUSED THE POWER WE TRUSTED UPON YOU.
He then added, "A painter at 90 deserves to be sitting in his home and painting his canvas." I am sure he meant standing in his studio and, I 100% agree with Justice Kaul here but add a qualification to the statement. The artist must act sensibly and impose self controlled Freedom of Expression - and certainly must not follow Justice Sanjay Kaul's judgement blindly and paint images that would hurt people's sentiments and with a convinction that he could not be challenged. I would put this judgement in the category of anti-social judgement and hope it is vigorously challenged.
Reacting to the judgement, Akhil Sibal, counsel for Husain, said: "This judgement is historical and prominent, and a fight against intolerance in our country and recognizes the importance of debate within legal society rather than misuse of the criminal justice system." I tend to agree that this was a historical judgement but only suitable to be thrown in the scrap heap of history. This judgement should carry public health warning - 'Only suitable for entertainment but STRICTLY NOT to be followed'.
later, Akhil Sibal - son of prominent congress politician - extended his reaction to NDTV by saying that India was pluralistic society and such intolerance will not be tolerated. But when he was quizzed on his definition of 'pluralistic society' and asked why the ban on Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses was justifiable? Why was ban on Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown justified in pluralistic society? Akhil Sibal had no answer to these questions and rightly so. His silence said it all. A couple of chosen communities can rightfully have unchallengeable perspective but one community cannot have this right - this is pluralism in Indian perspective.
My concern is not with nude paintings by Mr Hussain but of the bias and hypocrisy shown by the government and the elite of Indian society in the name of secularism and pluralism.
The leftists and the elitist Indians do not practice absolute 'pluralism' but selective 'pluralism' based on ones own 'perspective' and interest that Justice Kaul judged 'should not be challenged' or 'we shall pushed back to pre-renaissance era' (by the Hindu community)... (my words).
PLEASE VISIT MY BLOG: www.justarrival.blogspot.com
I agree 100% to your words.. I am seeing these Controversial paintings first time.. I feel very sad of myself; I cann't do anything against this,.. Anyway Sri.Rahul Iswar, You deserve a great hand to put this into all public opinion..
In India I think Hindus the "great Majority" is under some fear ????? I like to go hand in hand with all Indians whatever his religion, caste or creed or color....But these type of works & things only provoke all the guys evenif he is not a Hindu.. As Mr.Rahul said never give "The Painter" any awards.... and who selected him for these award should be punished first....
Joining your Hands !!
Check my latest post at http://satyadev.net/?p=36 . I m going to publish replies of all Shashi Tharoor's article in TOI.
Thanks
-SatyaDev
Great Rahul .... Hussain is a Basted..
If Hussain made nude paintings of Hindu's God and Goddess as an art but I can prove that he hates Hindus and Hindu religion, He also made a nude Hindu Brahmin in front of well dressed Muslim King.
If some one says that Khajuraho is also a piece of art then please can anyone suggest me why don’t he made her mother’s and her daughter’s picture fully covered and we can see only her faces. They also be a part of an Art, Great Art. And what was done before it’s not a point of discussion and we can’t punish them because they are no longer existed but in present if anyone is doing the shameless thing and do such an insulting things then we can’t tolerate Yes if Hussain will make paintings of Muhammad Sh. then we can really feel that he is not against Hindus and we will accept all the things as an ART :-)
Can Hussain do this ?? If Yes I think every Hindu will forgive him like a thoughtless person.
@Jay...
"And what was done before it’s not a point of discussion and we can’t punish them because they are no longer existed..."
ofcourse you cant punish them.... but you can try to demolish those sculptures and temples, right...? you can use all the expertise of certain hindu fanatics for the destruction... :-) good luck
I am more of a spiritual and no way near religion, and thank God that I do not feel sad or insulted by anything. I was born and brought up abroad and always felt that I was deprived of my Indianness.To avoid repeating my feeling I took my 2 daughters to India while they were still babies and brought them back to London when they were in their teens. I am glad to share my experience with all posters. My daughters, because of their bringing up in India, have matured into very bright thinkers, debaters and understanding humans.I indeed feel very satisfied.
What I fail to understand is why todays Indian Indian Youths fail to debate sensibly, why they simply spit insults and opinions without understanding the issues.
There are loads of such idiots on this post using unjustifiable & senseless arguments - clearly show lack of understanding of the issue & how lightly we Indians take serious issues - Jay and Vinod are latest such comment makers.
Being a painter myself I may not feel offended or insulted by Mr Hussains nudes but many many millions do feel hurt and that matters. Khajuraho temple scultures are simply red herrings -and nothing to do with the issue.
We should debate with balance - I only see two points - one is wether the need of such painting was matter of life and death for Mr Hussain even if it hurt other peoples sentiments - if he honestly says YES than he should be allowed to carry on painting many more. Though I am convinced that painting nudes & hurting peoples sentiments was not matter of life and death for Mr Hussain or anyone else as a matter of fact. And therefore not justifiable. There was no need - he is a great artist and he would have used the paint & canvass for much better art work. He messed it up. There was no need. No need whatso ever except to gain cheap popularity.
Two - if an artist is given an absolute freedom - I do not think any freedom is absolute in civilised society - than anyone can use this freedom to hurt anyone's sentiment and disturb whatever peace we have - say a terrorist can achive success in creating havoc by painting to hurt - without the use of explosives. Danish cartoon is one good example and Mr Hussains painting is another.
I urge to all - please let us have a good sensible debate. You don't need to be for or anti anyone - but only the issue. Live in present and don't drag in history over which we do not have any control. Mr Hussain's issue is in our control and we can agree to support him or not support him. The damage has already been done so let us retrive our peace of mind and ensure that no other artist ever make an attempt to hurt anyone's sentiments in name of art. Art never hurts & if it does than it is no art.
Regards.
visit:justarrival.blogspot.com
"THIRUVANANTHAPURAM, Kerala: Amid claims by rationalist groups that the famed 'Makara Vilakku' (celestial light) of Sabarimala is a fraud on devotees, the temple high priest said the Vilakku was lit symbolically while the 'jyothi' (light) was a celestial star appearing on the eastern horizon on Makarasankranthi day."
At last let me congratulate you for realising the truth. You can't fool all people always.
And Delhi court has quashed petitions against M.F.Hussain.(3 petitions). You may take at least a decade to correct your observation on this greate son of India.
raahule ninakku ee pani maduthille? vere enthilengilum keeri pidi ini! kapadanmaar kuree irangeetundallo!adichu shuddam aaaakkkooooooooooooooooo!
he should be punished
Dear atheist vbrajan.. and others here just a question? do you have brains if you have.. show me then only I will believe... otherwise without proof how can i beleive you have brains????
RAHUL.. JAI HIND WELL DONE I AM GIVING MY FULL SUPPORT TO YOU HUSSAIN SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
VISIT AND GIVE A LINK FROM YOUR BLOG
http://www.northamericanhindus.blogspot.com
Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala : Reacting to controversy on Sabarimala, G Sudhakaran, Devaswom Minister said, ''I was present on the Makaravillukku day at the Sabarimala last season. I saw the celestial star and it is at that very time that Makaravilakku is lighted. These people who confuse between Makara Jyothi and Makara Vilakku makes the problem. They are creating unnecessary disturbances".
Dear Rajan and Poocha....300 years of Mughal rule, 200 years of British Rule, and 70 years of Marxist Movement couldnt destroy Hinduism, do you think some publciity seeking yuktivadis will. Inspite of the anti-Hindu attitude of all the governments, media, today "Sabarimala is the largest annual pilgrimage in the world,(4- 4.5 Crores) now seekign Guinnes Entry, (that too by a communist, atheist minister Sudhakaran), Streekalude Sabarimala Attukal, is the largest union of women in the world according to guinnes book...
Rajan and Poocha... ---- bark, but who cares... and regarding the Traitor and cheap publicity seeking Hussain, only 3 cases are taken into account, now appeals have been given, 4 more cases are there. And We wont allow, such traitors, such cheap people to do what ever thonnyasam he likes in our Mother Land...Let that be very clear, if not in court, we will see in street, Dont think all Patriotic Indians are spineless like Hussain who esacped when there was a case, we will take it head on, AND NO SON IN GREAT IF HE PAINTS HIS MOTHER NAKED, Hussain did that....In the name of my motherland, no Hussain will be spared...Jai Hind
Dear Rahul,
It was you who brought the issue of the cases against Hussain in court in multiple posts when they were all against him.... You were shouting about constitution and law... now suddenly they dont matter to you and you are looking forward to handle Hussain on street :-) !!!
I remember you were the one who had several conflicts with the same communist minister outside. Now since he said something which you can interpret your own way you are temporarily highlighting it. See, what an opportunist you are...
who is trying to destroy Hinduism...? VK Rajan..? Me..? Poocha..? Mughal empire, Britishers..? or the numerous (yet to give a definite number... daily two or three are being caught!!) fake saints among you who used this religion and its followers for your own good...? whom to blame...?
certain people here still need proof that their is brain inside somebody's head... is it ignorance...? or what is it...? how can we ever debate something with somebody who just have nothing logical to argue? nothing but their own full forms for Hussain ?
This shows that without abusive words, without the emotional outbursts you are not able to convince even yourselves... then how are you going to convince others ?
does a majority number of posts in favour in this forum (without doubting the credibility of the posts!!) mean you have won... or someone else has lost...?
think again....
MF now reminds me of the American Slang word Mo---- Fu----. Sorry for this. I was wondering why so much of fuss was being made to protest against this fellow. I used to think that a mole hill is being made out to be a mountain. I am sorry. I never imagined this sucker has gone this far. All true Indians whatever be their religion should Cry Shame on this creature. It is clear this guy is definitely a Hindu hater and redicules Hindu culture and Hindu Gods and Goddesses. This is not freedom of art. This is prostitution with art. He is definitely trying to incite Hindus by hurting their sentiments. At whose behest?
Instead of condemning him our Congress Government wants to bring him home from Dubai where he is hiding with all honour and at Government expenses. Our Kerala Marxist Government wants to honour him for what? For rediculing Indian culture? I strongly protest with anguish against this guy and his obscene paintings. If this had happened against Muslim faith, by this time a Fatwa would have been out. All Indians Hindus, Muslims and Christians and others should respect each other and guard against such divisive tendencies created by unthinking people like MFH and the psuedo secularists supporting him.
T.V.S.Ramanujam
Mr.Vinod,
Ofcourse I had some clashes with Sudhakaran Sir, it has nothing personal in it. I admire his as a person for his corruption free rule. Even his opponents appreciate him for him corruption lessness and even his supporters criticise him for his misplaced and bad tongue. When his stand is wrong, he is criticised, when his stand in correct, it is appreciated,
He raised a baseless allegation against me, so I challenged his spine and challenged to arrest me and when he is saying right and truth, I whole heartedly appreciate Sudhakaran Sir.
Some bad people wear Vyaja dress, they wear all dress, Sannyasi, Politician, Doctor, Movie casting couch etc...that doesnt mean all Sannyasis, politicians, doctors are bad...
Remember Swami Vivekananda, Sree Narayana Guru, Chattambi Swami, Guruji Golwalkar, Chinmayananda etc..They did great service to our mother land..think abt that JaiHind
dear rahul,can we stop this unwanted discourse????
We can be vigilant, watch all the fake swamis and can make a real blog about that topic. It will help us to make our sanyasa and Indian culture far better.
Let’s stop this here! We will all start to purify the unjust crime against the very spiritual land- India by this swamis and tantris!!!!!!! Can we unite rahul???????
Dear Poocha, Thats where you precisely go wrong. Are all swamis bad, are all tantris bad. Our great freedom struggle was inspired by a swami, Swami Vivekananda and he was moulded by a Tantri, a priest, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. There are bad people in every field, in politics, religion, police, media etc. But dont brand that all fields are bad. We can all join together provided we can fight and end corruption and activities of all bad people irrespective of caste, religion and politics. Athalle Shari?
The issue is about Shree M F Hussain & his portrayal of nudity of Hindu deities and see where the likes of Poocha (?)is hijacking the issue. This is the malaise of society -to side line the issue and go for unrelated issues. Corrupt swamis & tantricks can be discussed in depth with another blog if one wants but it has no relevance to Shree M F Hussain issue.
Shall we grow up and debate seriously, maturely, with dignity and keep to close to the sugbject ? Or is it that after 766 + posting our capacity to discuss this subject with maturity has reached its zenith ?
Likes of Poocha are just having fun at the cost of a serious subject - his debating depth is less than 5th standard kid. I think one should stop responding to posting that has no relevance to the subject.
i had warned Rahul against responding to such irrelevant posts.
God Bless
Visit: Justarrival.blogspot.com & arrived4u.live.space.com
Rahul
be a real Hindu. a tolerant, soft spoken and peace minded...dont be easily excited one. Kudos to your effort on creating a blog even amidst a busy life!!Cheers!!
Rahul
be a real Hindu. a tolerant, soft spoken and peace minded...dont be easily excited one. Kudos to your effort on creating a blog even amidst a busy life!!Cheers!!
You earlier made the following comments:
-----------------------------------
M A K A R A J Y O T H I
DEAR RAJAN...I am keeping this post...YOu can see it, till the blog is there.
Please dont go by mere Hearsays..This is all cheap and propoganda by IGNORANT PEOPLE. if you dont know, dont comment.
1) If there is Mal practise
WHERE is KERALA HIGH COURT not interfering? GO FILE A PUBLIC INTEREST LITIGATION ?
IS SUPREME COURT ALSO A PART OF CONSPIRACY IN SABARIMALA?
WHAT HAPPEND TO THE COMMUNIST CHIEF MINISTERS ?
WHAT HAPPEND TO A.K.ANTONY,atheist, when he was the CM?
WHY CANT ANY ONE TAKE PICTURES USING SATELLITE AND EXPOSE THE 'malpractise' ?
WAS ELECTRICITY BOARD AND DEVASOM BOARD there 75 years ago, where Makara Jyothi was still there ?
WHY did the BRITISH didnt interfere when they were ruling. Makara Jyothi is there for centuries? Were the Britishers also involved in conspiracy ?
D O N T COMMENT unless you have studied an issue .
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Now you say that Makaravilakku is man made and jyothi is a star!!!. How people can believe you.vb
Dear Rahul,
You done a very good job and until I saw this blog I did not see the pictures which MFH has painted against gods. What a stupidity is this Raja Ravi Varma award is awarded to MFH. I think Kerala communist govt trying to make a communist whole people. The way you are presented this thing to public is very appreciable and congratulations for your work. May god bless you.
VANDE MATHARAM....
how can this be called freedom of expression? does freedom of expression means hurting religious sentiments of one religion?
whether hindus snatch d fundamental right of muslims r muslims snatch rights frm hindus it is a blow for r secular n democratic setup.the pictrs r really shocking for all indians who r patriotic.good wrk rahul ......
JAI HIND......
Indeed, it is a sad state of affairs... People who have come to certain stage in their life, gaining popularity for their own sake, tend to go berserk - it is their real self that shows up when they think they are on top of the world. It is the dirt that throws up and expose the kind of life that he has sprung from which he does not realize. He is for sure polluting the younger ones and mad he is...
We have seen enough of these nuts all through the decades. Best thing is to ignore them and keep them off our neighborhood clearly. -- Shankar
sad to see M.F. Hussain's concept of women and vulgarity in his pictures... as India a diversity nation ... but should not allow such men to breathe the breeze passing through the sub continent..
if i get a chance i would make him go and apologize to those Gods who he vulgared.. JAI BHARATH
As Devasom Minister rightly said "these publicity seeking so-called rationalists are creating problem" how true. They CREATE ISSUES out of NON ISSUES.
(ofcourse this is the only way to get media attention when YOU DONT HAVE ANY GOOD NUMBER OF PEOPLE WITH YOU)
I WILL REPEAT QUESTION THAT WERE RAISED
1) If there is Mal practise
WHERE is KERALA HIGH COURT not interfering? GO FILE A PUBLIC INTEREST LITIGATION ?
IS SUPREME COURT ALSO A PART OF CONSPIRACY IN SABARIMALA?
THEY KNEW THE REALITY OF MAKARA JYOTHI AND MAKARA VILAKKU, thats why they left IGNORANT people to dispute and last time 6 supreme court judges came there to pray.
2) WHAT HAPPEND TO THE COMMUNIST CHIEF MINISTERS ?
WHAT HAPPEND TO A.K.ANTONY,atheist, when he was the CM?
3) WHY CANT ANY ONE TAKE PICTURES USING SATELLITE AND EXPOSE THE 'malpractise' ?
WHAT ABOUT OUTSPOKEN SUDHAKARAN SIR. Kaliyakki vittille nirishvaravadikale?
WAS ELECTRICITY BOARD AND DEVASOM BOARD there 75 years ago, where Makara Jyothi/ Makara Vilakku was still there ?
WHY did the BRITISH didnt interfere when they were ruling. Makara Jyothi/Makara Vilakku is there for centuries? Were the Britishers also involved in conspiracy
They knew the difference, they study topics before commenting, and ofcourse that time they never had VISUAL MEDIA WHERE YOU CAN GIVE "Prasthavanas" to get attention.
AND FOR A NEW INFORMATION.
Refer Memoir of the Survey of Travancore and Cochin States by British Lieutenants Ward & Conner - 1818 February,Vol II, republished by Govt of Kerala 1994, available at Kerala council for historical research.
Page 137
"People from the remotest partest of India come to see this mountain diety. small girls and old women come there, but young women dont..ten thousands of people come there for 5 day festival starting on January 12th. "
A temple which transcends time, a temple where for 1000's of years accepted all religions, caste, creed, a cult which joined Vaishnavism and Saivism....It will stay eternal for it belongs to Sanatana Dharma.
( even rationalism was started by extreme believers in god, remember)
300 years of Mughal rule, 200 years of British Rule, 75 years of Communist ideology couldnt destroy, In India, religion, spirituality, philosophy is the heartbeat of nation, it was, it is and it will. Swamy saranam
eppoolaaa rahul disillusioned aakunne? daaa, can we talk about naturopathy?????ninte brother meat eater alle?
pinne brahmananmaar visjistarum, unnatharum aanennu vedangalil evidayengilum parayunundoooo?
sabarimala okay aanedaa rahule?! onnumillelum keralathinu veliyilulla kuree sambattokke ivide ethunille?(itreem maalinyangalum ivide aakunundenuu vismarikunnilla)!ninakkokke jeevikkamallo!ninte okke pichachatteeel kayyittu ninte annam mudakkaaaan enthayaalum rajane poole njaan illa! ha ah ah
advance 'sorry' if i hurt you by the above two comments!
Mr.Poochaa...
വാക്കുകള് സൂക്ഷിച്ച് ഉപയോഗിക്കാന് ശ്രമിക്കുക...
സന്ദര്ഭത്തിനനുസരിച്ചുള്ള കമന്റ് കള് ചേര്ക്കാനും ശ്രമിക്ക്. ഇവിടെ ചര്ച്ച ചെയ്യുന്ന വിഷയം രാഹുലിന്റെ ചേട്ടന് മീറ്റ് കഴിക്കുന്നതോ ബ്രാഹ്മണ്യമോ ആണോ...???
പിന്നെ ശബരിമലയിലെ വരുമാനത്തെ കുറിച്ചാണെങ്കില്....ഇന്ന് കേരളത്തില് ഏറ്റവും കൂടുതല് വരുമാനം കേരള ഗവണ്മെന്റിന് ലഭിക്കുന്ന പ്രധാന മാര്ഗ്ഗങ്ങള് പ്രവാസികള്, തിരുവിതാം കൂര് കൊച്ചിന് ദേവസ്വം ബോര്ഡ്, പിന്നെ നിങ്ങളുടെ എല്ലാം പ്രിയപ്പെട്ട ബീവറേജസ് കോര്പ്പറേഷന് എന്നിവയെല്ലാമാണ്. പ്രവാസികളുടെ കുടുംബങ്ങളുടെ വിസര്ജ്യങ്ങള് സംസ്കരിക്കാന് പറ്റുന്നുണ്ടെങ്കില് മാലിന്യങ്ങള് സംസ്കരിക്കാന് കഴിയുന്നുണ്ടെങ്കില് തീര്ച്ചയായും ശബരിമലയില് അന്യദേശക്കാര് എന്ന് താങ്കള് അവകാശപ്പെടുന്ന (ഒന്നാം ക്ലാസ് മുതലേ ചൊല്ലിവരുന്ന ഒരു വാചകം പൂച്ച മറന്നു എന്ന് വേണം കരുതാന് - ചുരുക്കത്തില് പറഞ്ഞാല് എല്ലാ ഭാരതീയരും സഹോദരീ സഹോദരന് മാരാരാണ്) അവരുടേയും മാലിന്യ സംസ്കരണത്തിന് നൂതന മാര്ഗ്ഗങ്ങള് അവലംഭിക്കുകതന്നെ വേണം... അതെങ്ങനെ അധികാരം കിട്ടിയാല് ദേവസ്വം കട്ടുമുടിക്കുവാനായി മാത്രം പദവികള് ഉപയോഗിക്കുന്ന രാഷ്ട്രീയ ആചാര്യന് മാര്ക്ക് അതിനെല്ലാം എവിടെ സമയം...
സ്വാമിയേ ശരണമയ്യപ്പാ...
Dear Rahul
"that time they never had VISUAL MEDIA WHERE YOU CAN GIVE "Prasthavanas" to get attention."
Presence of visual media and access to information is a threat to god and its brokers. Now it is very difficult to spread foolishness like makara jyothi villkku etc. People are more informed and they started asking questions. You can burn a book saying it is spreading atheism, but you cant stop danish cartoons present in internet.
Dear Poocha,
According to Kerala Chief Minister Achutanandan's report on economic status in Kerala for 2007-2008, Sabarimala Pilgrimage provides
10,134 crore rupee revenue to the state. The temple apart from this gives aroung 250-300 crore rupees every year.
Bhagavante aa Daya Bhiksha kondu thanneyanu oru Samsthana Khajanavum janangalum jeevikkunathu. KSRTC 26% loss oru Sabarimala season nikathunu.
Pinee Poochayude taram tana comment, I understand it arises from anger, insult, sarcasm, contempt, inferiority ...all these can be chances, and dear Pooca.
You people are cleverly fooled. I again say "Jananal jayathe marthya, karmana jayathe dwija.
You are only born as a man, brahminhood, or brahma jana, or 'self' realisation is acquired. No one has nay special privilege
Poocha, think again Vedas were codified by Vyasa, son of a fisherwoman, did anyone say we wont accept vedas, Valmiki was a Sceduled Tribe Ratnakara, The all imporatant Gayatri Mantra was by Vishwamitra, not a Brahmin. Rama was black, Krishna was black. Ravana was a Brahmin, son of Visravas. Is any body respecting Ravana?
In Sabarimala for the past 1000s of years there was no untouchability, no religious issue, We all belong to a culture, a nation where Lord Ayyappa built a mosque for Babar (Vavar Swamy) 950 years ago. Is Ayyappa a Brahmin, What about Kochukadutha, a so-called lower caste diety worshiped in Sabarimala for centuries, Was Muruka a Brahmin? no. Brahmajnanethi Brahmana. Those who know Brahmam, is that, it is a degree you acheive not a dogma called caste imposed by birth. swamy saranam
Rajan Sir, Dont be in a fools world, Of course when you close your eyes, you can feel darkness but not the others whose eyes are open.
1) DIdnt UR COMMUNIST MINISTER tease and made fun of 'publicity seeking yuktivadis who unnecessarily creates problem' ?
(according to him)
2) See the rate at which left movements are declining and Indian spirituality as a global philosophy is emerging.?
3) Where are the BROKERS OF ATHEISM AND RATIONALSIM when Chief Minister Achutanandan's son visit Sabarimala every 2 months with Vratam? Did any broker gave him money to come there?
4) Danish cartoons are offensive to me and so is Taslims Nasreen, she might have supported the Hindus in Bangladesh, But for me as an Indian, "My Indian Muslim is more important than a Bangladeshi Hindu", So I denounce both, Taslima and Danish cartoons.
5) ( even rationalism was started by extreme believers in god, remember)
300 years of Mughal rule, 200 years of British Rule, 75 years of Communist ideology couldnt destroy, In India, religion, spirituality, philosophy is the heartbeat of nation, it was, it is and it will. Swamy saranam
"Vedas were codified by Vyasa, son of a fisherwoman, did anyone say we wont accept vedas, Valmiki was a Sceduled Tribe Ratnakara"
Above mentioned names are great. But unfortunately we give importance to the characters created by them. Rama the epic character created by Valamiki is more important to us than the writer. For us the birth place of Rama is important and we are ready to die for it. But nobody knows where is Valmiki's birth place. This is like giving importance to Chempankunju over Thakazhi the great writer who wrote Chemmeen.
What Mr. Rajan said is very correct.... "Moorthiyekkal valiya santhi" ennokke parayille... exactly like that.
For namesake we can quote Rahul's arguments. But Rahul, unfortunately none of them is relevant in the practical world. Whatever you try to argue based on religion will lead to divide people. Finally leading to blood shed and deaths of many in the name of religion. You can call it patriotism, you can quote the 'karma' dialogues from Geetha, but eventually the outcome is the same.
JAI GANAPATHY DEVAN
i am also aganist to give this award to M.f hussain
the kerala govt is to change this
order this not my request this is our peoples request
vinoy
daa ratheesh kumar e, nee choodavalle!meat eating okke valya preshnangalaada!
hussian ningal vijarikkunathilum valya pulliyaadaa! thodaan pattilla!
congressinte kayyil iruppukondu bjp adikarathil ethiyaal enthengilum okke nadakkumayirikkuma alle? rahule, ninte chettanaa kuree koodi beedam!
Dear Poocha, Mr.Rajan
Hussain might be a "Valiya Pulli". These "valiya Pulli's' should be more responsible and sensible to the national sensitivities. They should be role models and people who gives light to the path.
And one more thing, If Hussain is such a Valiyapulli WHY IS HE ESCAPING AND RUNNING AWAY LIKE A COWARD, Why is HE NOT RETURNING TO INDIA and facing the COURT.
Then DEAR VINOD. Why do you always blame people who protest and according to you "DIVIDE PEOPLE" WHy dont you protest Mr.Hussain who is CLEVERLY dividing people, making people having ill feeling towards each other and CREATING CONTROERSY for HIS POPULARITY. WHy dont you see through the usual cunning trick of Artists, film makers, writers to create Controversy to sell themselves. Ofcourse they can sell themselves, but it would not be tolerated if they are selling national symbols. Athalle Shari?
And DEAR RAJAN SIR.
HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU KNOW THAT RAM WAS ONLY A CHARACTER. Just because he lived 5000 years ago, he is not history but mythology.
And remember Sri Ram being picturised as God is different. What I am saying is a Ram who lived here, who doubted his wife, who sacrificed his wife for his nation, a normal person who cried when he lost his life. Ram as a person, Krishna as a person. Archaelogists have discovered the "lost city of Dwaraka" . check internet for it. I admire Manikanta, a person who lived almost 950 years ago and a person who BUILT A MOSQUE FOR his MUSLIM friend Babar ( Vavar) that too 950 years ago. Why cant you see them as great Human beings who lived, reformed and died. ? I worship their great efforts for Rajya and Dharma here. Jai Hind
@Rahul
the answer is just because you yourselves are giving him the popularity and fame. Less than 0.1 % people knew about this (so called) issue. even now less than a percent of the people taking part in this discussion have seen the paintings. still this issue is so much discussed because there is a deliberate effort to keep the tempo live and this vested interest is what is dividing the people.
പ്രിയ പൂച്ചേ... താങ്കളും രാഹുലിന്റെ ചേട്ടനും തമ്മിലുള്ള പ്രശ്നങ്ങള് അല്ല ഇവിടുത്തെ വിഷയം. പിന്നെ ഈ “വലിയപുള്ളി” എന്നത് കൊണ്ട് എന്താണാവോ താങ്കള് ഉദ്ദേശിക്കുന്നത്. കുറേ നഗ്ന ചിത്രങ്ങള് വരച്ചതുകൊണ്ടോ മാധുരിദീക്ഷിത്തിന്റെ പിറകേ നടന്നതുകൊണ്ടോ ആണ് ഉദ്ദേശിച്ചതെങ്കില് ഇവിടെ വഴിയരികില് നാട്ടിലെ 500/- രൂപ കൊടുത്താല് നമ്മളുടെ തന്നെ കാരിക്കേച്ചര് വരച്ചുതരുന്ന് ആള്ക്കാരുണ്ട് ഇവിടെ അവരാണ് ഇയാളേക്കാള് വലിയപുലി... എം എഫ് ഹുസൈന് ആരും ആയിരുന്നു കൊള്ളട്ടെ, ഇപ്പോള് ഒരു മഹത് പൈതൃകത്തെയും എന്തിന് ഭാരത മാതാവിനെ തന്നേയും തെന്റെ ദുഷിച്ച കൈകളാല് ചായം പൂശിയ അന്ന് കഴിഞ്ഞു അയാളുടെ വ്യക്തിത്വം അല്ലെങ്കില് അന്ന് മരിച്ചു അയാള് ദേശസ്നേഹികളുടെ മനസ്സില്. റിലീസ് ചെയ്ത അന്ന് തന്നെ മാധുരിയുടെ ചിത്രം കാണാനായി അയാള് ചെലവഴിച്ച തുകയുടെ കണക്ക് അറിയാമോ പൂച്ചക്ക് അത്രയും പണം ഉണ്ടായിരുന്നെങ്കില് ഏറ്റവും ചുരുങ്ങിയത് ജനസേവാശിശുഭവന്റെ ഒരുവര്ഷത്തേക്കുള്ള ചെലവ് നടന്നുപോയേനെ. ഇത്രയും വൃത്തികെട്ട ആളോടാണോ താങ്കളുടെ ആരാധന....!!!??????
പിന്നെ പൂച്ചേ. . .
ഇവിടെ പറയണ്ടാത്ത കാര്യമാണ് പേഴ്സണല് മെയില് ഐഡി അറിയില്ലാത്തത്കൊണ്ട് പറഞ്ഞ് പോകുവാണ്. ഈ “ഡാ” വിളിയുണ്ടല്ലോ അങ്ങ് വീട്ടില് വിളിച്ചാല് മതി കേട്ടോ... താങ്കളുടെ സംസ്കാരത്തില് ഒരാളെ അഭിസംബോധന ചെയ്യുന്നത് ഇങ്ങനെയാണോ...
പ്രിയപ്പെട്ട വായനക്കാരെ ക്ഷമിക്കണം....
This is not shocking.This is what has been going on for years as a conspiracy.for anything and everything they attack the hindus.what would have happened if any hindu born had done the same with other religious idols?its a shame to live as a hindu and tolerate this injustice.the time has come...join and protest1
This is not shocking.This is what has been going on for years as a conspiracy.for anything and everything they attack the hindus.what would have happened if any hindu born had done the same with other religious idols?its a shame to live as a hindu and tolerate this injustice.the time has come...join and protest1
dear rahul,
after going through the opinions of some well reputed red 'cat' and other protagonists of communism,i understood that there is no meaning in convincing them.they have a specific mutation in their DNA called 'marxian mutation'the affected cells grow as a cancer inhibiting the growth of nearby cells and finally it bursts ...we have seen it in soviet union.
today i saw in the news paper that the most admired person in the current russia in the last czar emperor.after beheading him the people out there are now sympathizing.but here what the communists see as their greatest enemy is 'hinduism'.but for that they will have to decapitate all of us...not those who r just born hindus,but those who live as hindus!
Its not fair to attack a nation's culture and say its "freedom of expression". People like Hussain does this type of exercise for mere popularity and to increase the market value of his paintings. This type of people makes the community shame. Indians should protest against this. our govt is sily enough to award such a degnified award to a person like m f hussain. whenever someone raises voices against him, they are labelled as communals.
do you think other communities will be silent if he draws something about jesus or propet muhammed nabhi.
indians have no right to say that they are indians, after seeing this paintings,he should be and hanged to death,
dear rajan sir,
M.F. hussain be back or stays,we dont care.we are not like the people who throw stones at salman rusdie or tasleema nasreen.we have a more civilised form of protest.but freedom of expression never means freedom to hurt one's religious sentiments.hussain can still paint pictures only because he is in india.let him live a 100 more years!
Dear Rajan Sir, You are having SELECTIVE AMNESIA.
1) When Kerala High Court have verdict against Hussain, you people said, Courts doesnt matter
2) When Delhi High Court, Justice Kapoor said in the hearing "Liberty cannot be misused by publicity seeking people like Hussain", you said Courts were biased
3) When Courts issued arrest warrants, court were of less importance and now suddenly COURTS are the place where there is final JUDGEMENT.
Many patriots have given review petitions, LET Hon SUPREME COURT DECIDE. Yes we are purists when it comes to our mother and motherland. People who doesnt have pure thoughts will support perverts like Hussain.
Jai Hind
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